basement support posts & speaker placement (w/ .skp file

Started by lazlominimart on 1 June 2005. 16 replies. In the Library under Control room design.

Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 3823.

Hello all -- Construction on my new room is in full effect. I'll post pics of the process when we're done. Nailing those additional layers into the subfloor has been time-consuming, tedious work, but there's about a half-ton of material up there now, and I'm confident isolation will be more than sufficient. Thanks again to John for the idea! I decided to try SketchUp to model the new room and get a feel for the kind of desk I'd like to construct and where the speakers should be placed. I'm a little worried about whether or not the support posts that somewhat frame the room will interfere with monitoring. Here is my .skp file: http://lazlominimart.myftp.org/studio2.skp And some stills:
External image, not preserved — original: http://lazlominimart.myftp.org/studio2.gif
External image, not preserved — original: http://lazlominimart.myftp.org/studio2b.gif
External image, not preserved — original: http://lazlominimart.myftp.org/studio2c.gif
Anyone have any input about this speaker placement? Thanks! Lazlo
Yes, your posts will affect your monitr's early reflections. It's really a function of the dispersion pattern of your monitors, but if you can see the monitors in a mirror placed on the post from the listening position then there's a reflected path direct to your ears. Basically you will want to treat the hell out of those posts. What size are they? If they're less than 10" or so, then all you need to worry about is freuencies above 250 Hz, which is easy to treat with some fairly thick 703 (2-4"). Frequencies below 250Hz will just pass around the posts as if they were'nt really there. Also, don't forget about the horizontal post, which can cause some flutter problems...just treat the front of it with 703. Another idea would be to bring your monitors closer in to the listening position. Ideally, look at a 120 degree arc coming oit of each monitor (i.e. 60 deg on either side of the 'direct line of fire'...you don't want early reflections from these angles to hit the listening position within less than 20 ms (<20 feet additional distance versus the direct path), or if they are less than 20 ms, they should be -20dB relative to the direct sound (i.e. absorbed) . Yet another option is to angle the fronts of the posts so that reflections are re-directed away from the listening positon.... Cheers, Kris
Thanks for the input. The only "solid" aspects of the model I built in SketchUp are the posts and the walls. Those cannot change. But, the desk and the monitor placement are completely imaginary -- I haven't built the desk yet, and can build it to suit the space and speaker placement as necessary. Sounds like moving the monitors closer to the posts (nearly parallel with them) would work best, requiring no treatment of the posts. I may take this approach. What about mounting the speakers to the insides of the posts, with the bass ports firing back out at an angle so that they won't hit the posts? I've considered this approach once or twice...
Another thing to note, you speaker angle seems too steep. Are you using a 60 degree internal angle at the listening position, or a 90 degree? Ideally you want 60 degrees... Cheers, Kris
How about this revised drawing....
External image, not preserved — original: http://lazlominimart.myftp.org/studio2d.gif
In this image, the speakers and the chair form a equilateral triangle (4'5" per side). 60 degree angles.
What about turning the control room around 180 degrees. Looking at the drawing, the beam isn't centered in the room. Correct?
Too late to flip the room -- we're already building. The reason I put the long wall where I did is that the ceiling height is greater in that part of the room and that's where clients will sit/stand.
maybe try this and get a vox booth as well. cheers john
Image not preserved: studio.jpg
Interesting idea, John, but my room is a mix/master only facility, so no need for a vocal booth. Do you have any ideas for ideal speaker placement given the post situation, John? Or did I just screw myself with this configuration... :?:
You'll definitely need to move that LCD monitor back. As drawn in your last sketch, it's worse than the posts in terms of early reflections. Also, consider your desk carefully...monitor splash off of the desk surface can cause bad comb filtering. Basically, the desk needs to be as small as you can get away with, particularly for mastering. Consider angling it downwards to direct any reflections away from you. Kris
Good point. I might build the desk so that the monitor lays flat in the desk. Another option I've considered is making a little monitor stand at the very back of the table so that the flat panel can be parallel with the monitors -- that would work, as well, correct? When you say angling downwards, I assume you mean sloping down towards my chair? Another idea I had was to get an LCD projector and use the front wall of the studio to project my PC's screen, elminating any need for a monitor at all! It's hard to shake that idea the more I think about it. I'm looking very seriously at this unit: http://www.epinions.com/pr-Sanyo_PLV_Z1 ... _Projector
Here's my latest idea. This concept involves mounting a flat panel monitor to a sloped desk, taking it out of my speakers' line of fire completely, while simultaneously doing away with the flat desk approach. It's a very simple design -- a couple of boards and some angle iron would do it. Trickiest part will be cutting the holes for the rack bays, but that shouldn't be too difficult. Thoughts on this approach?
External image, not preserved — original: http://lazlominimart.myftp.org/studio2e.gif
I'm with Aaron then - flip it 180. cheers john
Image not preserved: studio4.jpg
Thanks once again for the help, guys, although I must admit being completely confused as to how to proceed! These ideas are getting pretty far from my original concept. Some sleeping on this required... g'night!
You still need to consider the 'console splash' . Look at your setup from the side, and see if sound soming at 60 degrees or so from the monitor will hit the desk surface and reflect back to the listening position. This will influence the angle of the desk, and how far it can protrude. You can play with both the desk's height, position, and angle, also monitor height position, and angle can be adjusted. There's alot to consider.....but better to do this first, before building, and then considering.... Cheers, Kris
John Sayers wrote:
I'm with Aaron then - flip it 180. cheers john
John -- I'm curious... why the need for soffit mounting if I place the speakers nearer to the long wall of the room? Would I run into substantial acoustics issues if I simply flipped the gear and furniture like so:
External image, not preserved — original: http://lazlominimart.myftp.org/studio3.jpg
Is it critical that the short wall the be the one the listener faces? Thanks, Lazlo
Well yes Lazlo but those damn poles are more of an acoustic problem for your listening position than the walls IMO. cheers john