Drum riser: poor man's floating floor? *DONE! WITH PHOTO!*

What's the thinking here regarding floating a drumset and/or a guitar amp (as a cheaper way to get some low-end isolation)? I'm curious if anyone has tried the isolated riser approach with success, isolationwise. My studio temporarily resides in the walk-out lower level of my house. When a rock band is playing (loud drums, bass amps, etc.), you can still here the low-end freqs up on the second floor - where the kid's bedrooms are. I'm thinking about building a drum riser with carpet-covered 6' x 6' MDF (5/8" thick) atop some of those Auralex PlatFoams. I'd also likely build a couple amp platforms as well (like those Auralex GRAMMAs). The goal would be to decouple the drums and amps from the room, and reduce the low freq transmission thru the house structure (a wood frame house with wood siding). I realize I'll still have flanking noise to deal with, but that doesn't seem to be as much as a prob. (I'm thinking this might also tighten up the mud a bit in my 23' x 22' tracking room.) For those that don't know, PlatFoams are dense foam 'sleepers' sold by the ubiquitous Auralex. Quoting Auralex's site, "Sound transmitting to other parts of your home or studio can be significantly reduced, resulting in greater sound isolation [when using Platfoams]." There are a bunch of folks reporting decent results over on the vdrums discussion group as well (albeit with much less ambient volume). More here in this PDF: http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_platfoam/pf.pdf Anyway, those PlatFoams are expensive (about $20.00 per 4' sleeper). Isn't there some way to float a drum riser for cheaper? (Perhaps using several 703 panels laid on the floor, and/or stacked? Or neoprene nubs?) Has anyone tried this? What's the general thinking on doing 'poor man's isolation' via 'mini floating floor' risers? Best, Aj Michigan

I was thinking along the same lines, this would be extremely useful for all these people who desire a floating floor, but don't have the expertise (or piles of cash) to do it. There must be a one-size-fits-all drum riser solution, I know there are many factors to take into account, roomsize/drumkit size/weight of drummer :oops: etc. but one of the technical bods on here could probably design a solution that can be built by the average diy-er, that will work within certain parameters. Anyone up to the challenge?

Bump (this question is starting to drift off the front page :) .)

IF you're getting second floor bass, it's more likely that it's MOSTLY flanking - either way, a riser should help. For cheaper, try floating two layers of 3/4" MDF on 4" Rockwool - cheaper than 703, same weight (2.5 to 3 PCF) - just put 2x4 foot pieces of rockwool down on the floor (if it's only 2", then criss-cross the second layer so joints do NOT line up) do a 6x6 or 6x8, even 8x8 - 6x8 is a good size for most kits. rip one sheet lengthwise into two 2x8 pieces, place a full and a half sheet on the rockwool, spread liquid nailz beads around the perimeter and every two feet, then lay a full sheet over the half sheet (and half of the full sheet, and the other half sheet over the remainder. This keeps joints separate for more strength. Use 1-1/2" deck screws and fasten together while adhesive is fresh. Warning - this will likely create a resonance that's in the audible frequency range; if you're lucky, it will NOT be the same frequency as one of your tom toms, but NO GUARANTEE. Anything heavier than this (or if your house is flimsy and you're NOT on the ground floor) and you should ASK FIRST. Death is reportedly quite FINAL... Steve

Belated thanks for the great, well-thought out reply Steve... It's interesting, because I asked Auralex about decking material thickness (to use with their PlatFoam sleepers underneath). They suggested 1/2" or 5/8" thick MDF or plywood - but no thicker, as that would be too stiff. Seemed a bit counterintuitive to me - perhaps the durometer of the PlatFoam is quite different then the rock wool you suggest. Also, I have a cheaper source for 703 than rock wool (upper Midwest USA). Would that work just as well? And finally, are deck screws necessary, assuming the - wouldn't they help to short circuit the isolation a bit? As always, thanks much. You and John offer a great resource here. Best, Aj

Ok, well it's taken awhile, but I'm finally ready to build the Steve/Knightfly drum riser, as proposed earlier in this thread. One last question for you Steve about your suggested design, just to make sure I'm understanding it... Is this the basic composition of the riser (from top to floor): *DRUMSET ON TOP* FIRST 3/4" MDF LAYER SECOND 3/4" MDF LAYER (DECK SCREWED TO FIRST MDF LAYER ABOVE) LIQUID NAILS 4" OF ROCKWOOL (OR 703) *FLOOR* Thanks much.... Adam

Just a bump to keep this from slipping off the page 1. Actually, I'm just looking for a quick 'Yes, you got it right, go ahead and build it!' from anyone familiar with Steve's riser plan above. Best, Adam

It seems a good plan to me :) I am going to test the isolation improvement made by using a (for the moment very simple, cheap, temporarily) drum riser. I have all the materials (including dB meter) ready if all goes well, I can do the experiment tomorrow more info here

Yes, that's what I meant; I've not done exactly that though, so for a "test" I would just lay your two sheets of MDF on top of the rockwool, then lay two more sheets (at right angles) on top of that, then put the drums on top and play. No nails, no glue, no screws at this time - that way, if it makes no difference you can use the materials elsewhere (or not at all) - Granted, using no fasteners will likely give you some "buzzes" within the room; don't worry about that, the point of the test is to see if flanking is your main problem or not, so the only listening should be in the "receiving" rooms (where you DON'T want the sound) Then, if those rooms are noticeably quieter, you can re-do the riser for keeps using the methods you mentioned... Steve

Ok guys, thanks for the confirmation... I'm going to take Steve's advice and just "pile it all up" and see. For the bottom layer, I've got some extra 2" 705 panels, so I'll just use those. First I'll start with one layer of 2" - then see how well it decouples the kit from the room. If that doesn't do the trick, I'll add another 2". We'll see. And... if this works well on drums, I'm planning on going whole hog with decoupling - I'll be making a few little floating platforms for the amps as well! I'm really gung ho about setting up the best "one room" recording environment I can (for the musicians). I want all the players in the band to be together when they record -to feel like they are merely having another rehearsal, yet have the recording tracks as separated as possible. (With some bleed of course.) Best, Adam

Just to let you know "the experiment" is finished, with good/great results :) (i posted the link above)

You posts were great, Dieter@be. Looking forward to hear of AjD's experiences aswell. I may be getting v-drums in a couple of months, but still want to damper the sound downwards, as to not disturb anyone.

I've been researching the forums and I have decided to purchase 96 square feet of 2" 703 rigid fiberglass to use as the base of my drum riser. http://www.insulationworld.com/prod...p?idproduct=394 or I could get the same amount of mineral wool. http://www.insulationworld.com/prod...p?idproduct=631 The rigid fiberglass will be on the floor with a couple sheets of plywood on top, then drums go on top of that. Does this seem like a good idea? The mineral wool is cheaper so I wanna get that, but I am not familier with it. If the mineral wool is just as good as the 703 please let me know because I will purchase that. Thanks, Allan Franklin

here you will find some nice information about 703 etc (iirc it says mineral wool = rock wool= rigid fiberglass, but it sure doesnt look the same on your pictures) besides that, i think your links should be http://www.insulationworld.com/prodView ... roduct=394 and http://www.insulationworld.com/prodView ... roduct=631

Allan, the mineral wool is just as good for acoustics; it's cheaper to make, that's why it costs less. Other than price, it's pretty much a direct replacement for rigid fiberglass, meaning same weight same result... Steve

Just checking now, is the rockwool actually resting on the floor for this?

Ok, the riser is built! Here's a photo (see above discussion for what it's made of). Adam

Wow! 8) I'm trying to decide what I like best:

The handsome drum riser (that's the point, right?) The treatments in the corner The cool area rug The Jetsons-style seat at the console The lighting

Now go hang up that picture already! ;)

Yes it looks very stylish :) join the drum riser club :wink: (weird setup btw, with the kick drum pointing forwards and the snare totally on the left)

Thanks for the compliments... would you believe it actually looks cooler in person :)? Sounds good too - tighter, less mud, more focused & well, decoupled. More thorough tests to come this weekend. Warm, interesting aesthetics of the recording space are really important to me. I think it makes for more comfortable musicians, and better performances. Sharward, I keep holding off on hanging that picture, 'cuz I'm debating about adding more absorbers above the couch! Adam (Dieter, about the snare/kick position, must be an optical illusion with the photo... it's a standard set-up.)

Please dont flame me ;-) What do you think about a solution with tyre instead rockwool ... meaning you put 4 tyre on the ground and then the MDF ? will it work too ? I put a tyre under my sub and the sound is really better so it should work for drums too ...

my question wasn't answered... :-\ is the black stuff in the picture the foam, and is that resting on the floor or is the riser on feet?

My guess is that the "back stuff" is "absence of light" (i.e. shadow from the overhead lights). I'm assuming there are "feet" of some kind, or maybe it's hovering an inch off the ground! :shock: ;)

Yes, in the absence of real hover technology (sorry, chippy :) ), the riser is resting on 2" of unfaced 705 6 pcf rigid fiberglass panels. But seriously, Sharward is right about the shadow. The reason it may look like the riser is in fact "floating" is I left an empty inch-wide space under the whole perimeter of the riser. That is, the riser itself is 6' 6" x 6' 6", and it rests atop 6' 4" x 6' 4" of rigid fiberglass. I custom cut the fiberglass to those dimensions using a jigsaw. I left this perimeter because a) it allows the riser to clear the floor toe molding and almost 'kiss' the walls, without actually touching them; and b) it looks cool & 'floaty' (most important!), especially once I added the wood trim border. Incidentally, the wood trim border you see isn't plywood - it's poplar (made of 1 x 4s screwed into the MDF). In addition to nicely matching the look of the wall absorbers & bass traps (also trimmed in poplar), this poplar trim helped to reinforce that inner 1" floating perimeter of the MDF. I had originally thought about staining the poplar (it has a nice, pleasing deep grain) - but ultimately decided the blonde look worked best with the mod furniture & stuff. Adam P.S. I made a 3' x 3' version of this riser over the weekend for bass amps, larger guitar cabs, etc.

"my question wasn't answered... :-\ " me too ... ;-(