MIX ROOM in Progress (Need Suggestions) Lot of Pictures!!!!

I am have been experimenting with treatments in my mix room and need some suggestions. The room measurements are.... Width - 10 ft Height - 8 ft Length - 14ft (into closet) Length - 11.6 (back wall) As of now, I have 4 inches of 703 on the front and back wall. The clouds are made of 4 inches of 703 suspended with a 4 inch airgap. The front corners have 22 inch ASC "super" tube traps. On the sidewalls, I have 8 inches OC stuffed into a 4 inch frame. Right now, the room is quite dead. (no shocker there) My big question is how to do the back wall? Should I go for absorption? Or should I do something more like a slat wall? Or maybe a combo with 703 and a diffusor in the middle for some of the higher freqs (1k-4k?) I'm also thinking slats on the side walls (per John's design) would be a good idea as well. My friend came over and did a pink noise test and there is a screen shot to the results in my links. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/ ... oACOUS.jpg Any suggestions would be helpful. Here are links to pictures that show the entire room much better than I could explain it. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/ ... tudoA1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/ ... udioA3.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/ ... udioA5.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/ ... udioA6.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/ ... udioA7.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/ ... tudiA8.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/ ... oACOUS.jpg Thanks Craig

Craig - I'm sure the room sounds better now than it did before but as you say - it will be very dead. You don't show what's on the floor but I'm assuming carpet?? I'd brighten the room up by adding a reflective surface - plywood? MDF to the front of the ceiling clouds and I'd also angle them to break up the standing waves between floor and ceiling. Keep the rear wall dead. cheers john

John Sayers wrote:

Craig - I'm sure the room sounds better now than it did before but as you say - it will be very dead. You don't show what's on the floor but I'm assuming carpet?? I'd brighten the room up by adding a reflective surface - plywood? MDF to the front of the ceiling clouds and I'd also angle them to break up the standing waves between floor and ceiling. Keep the rear wall dead. cheers john

Thanks for the quick reply. I forgot to mention the floor is actually wood. Can you describe in more detail what you mean by adding MDF to the front of the clouds? Also, what is your opinion on angled slat absorbers on the side walls? Needed or no? I'll angle the ceiling clouds .... any particular degree of angle? I could do them all in different angles? Thanks! Craig

Adding a sheet of plywood over the front of your ceiling clouds will make them reflective, angling them will help create angled walls to your rectangular shapes. The added reflective surface will brighten up the room in the high frequencies making it sound not so dead. The clouds will still absorb as the back of them is still insulation. Yes - I'd consider slots on the side walls but to brighten up the room (highs) but also if you angle them you'll also be breaking up the rectangular dimensions in the room. cheers john

John Sayers wrote:

Adding a sheet of plywood over the front of your ceiling clouds will make them reflective, angling them will help create angled walls to your rectangular shapes. The added reflective surface will brighten up the room in the high frequencies making it sound not so dead. The clouds will still absorb as the back of them is still insulation. Yes - I'd consider slots on the side walls but to brighten up the room (highs) but also if you angle them you'll also be breaking up the rectangular dimensions in the room. cheers john

Thanks so much John, Another question in that case. What thickness plywood should I be looking at for the clouds. Would a thin luan plywood (1/8 inch) be appropriate? (ex - the kind they use for hollow core doors) I would _think_ that would be enough to reflect the highs and let the lows through. I'll certainly be doing the angled slats on the sidewalls. I just need to decide if I want to do two seperate units on each wall or maybe one longer angled slat wall. I guess the best bet is just to stick with your design on the site. Also, just out of curosity, what kind of thickness of 703 on the backwall might get me down in the 60hz range of absorption? ( maybe 8 inches with an airgap?) Or is that even possible in a room as small as mine? Thanks again!!!!! Craig

I'd go for a heavier plywood - you want to reflect the lows as well. With the side walls you're best to aim at having the angled section infront of your listening position - once it passes you the walls don't become such a problem - so I'd look at one right up next to the tube trap and then another up to the listening position. For your back wall why not use the whole cupboard as a trap - even put some hangers in it - it is part of the rear wall?? cheers john

John Sayers wrote:

I'd go for a heavier plywood - you want to reflect the lows as well. With the side walls you're best to aim at having the angled section infront of your listening position - once it passes you the walls don't become such a problem - so I'd look at one right up next to the tube trap and then another up to the listening position. For your back wall why not use the whole cupboard as a trap - even put some hangers in it - it is part of the rear wall?? cheers john

John, Hmmmm... I would have thought reflecting the lows defeat the purpose of the clouds but I guess there would still be lowend absorption with the 703. How thick should I go? 1/4, 1/2, etc ? So I understand better, What kind of frequency range are we talking about as far as reflecting back low end. Yes, the closet runs across the majority of the back wall. It is about 2.5 feet deep. I need a little bit of that space for my rack but I can easily use 1.5 feet of it for bass trapping. I'm just wondering how effective the backwall absorption could be by using all the space? I'd be more than willing to buy more 703 (or whatever) if I can get down inot the 60 hz range.

I'm suggesting that you put a false wall across the front of the cupboard giving you 2.5ft depth for the 4" insulation. you can still mount your rack in there as before. Adding hangers will increae your low end absorption as well. The ceiling panels will reflect the lows as well as the highs, angle the clouds so they direct the sound to the rear of the room. cheers john

John, Thats the direction I'll go in then. I'll take more pix when I am done for anyone who wants to see them. Thanks for all your help. I think you run a great site. (BTW - Check your PayPal account) Craig

What would be the correct slat widths for the side walls of my room? I don't have excel and can't run the calculators.... I'm also very bad at math... so probably best I don't attempt it myself anyway. Thanks Craig

What you are looking for in the slats is absorbers that they will take over the absorption of the 703 which is rolling off around the low mids 300hz. This is also the major resonance frequency in small rooms like yours. It's also the frequency area that can mask what's actualy happening in the frequencies below that. So often low end problems can be resolved by solving the inherant low-mid frequency problem. If you check out the reverb calculator at the SAE site .http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/pages/Reverberation%20Time%20Calculator.htm#verbcalc and put in a room with gypsum board walls and ceiling and wooden floor, your standard bedroom, you'll see that the reverb time is highest around 500 - 1khz. The low end is down - that's because gypsum board acts as a low frequency panel absorber and the low lows go straight through it. Now do it with brick walls and concrete ceiling and floor and you'll see the low end reverbtime is almost equal to the 500 -1khz reverb time. That's because brick and concrete has more mass and reflects the low end and holds it in the room. With regard to the slat widths etc. I would need to know the dimensions of your slat frames before I could answer that one for you but as you can see from above I'd be aiming at the low-mid frequency range. cheers john

Wow nice desk. I see you are a Paris user as well. Funny, we are both going through the same thing at the same time. What are you using to suspend the cloud? is it wire? I am also curious about making the panels reflective. Will using the 703 alone be counter-productive? also would 3/4 MDF be too thick? Also is 2" 703 of any use on the ceiling or should I double it? C

John Sayers wrote:

What you are looking for in the slats is absorbers that they will take over the absorption of the 703 which is rolling off around the low mids 300hz. This is also the major resonance frequency in small rooms like yours. It's also the frequency area that can mask what's actualy happening in the frequencies below that. So often low end problems can be resolved by solving the inherant low-mid frequency problem. If you check out the reverb calculator at the SAE site .http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/pages/Reverberation%20Time%20Calculator.htm#verbcalc and put in a room with gypsum board walls and ceiling and wooden floor, your standard bedroom, you'll see that the reverb time is highest around 500 - 1khz. The low end is down - that's because gypsum board acts as a low frequency panel absorber and the low lows go straight through it. Now do it with brick walls and concrete ceiling and floor and you'll see the low end reverbtime is almost equal to the 500 -1khz reverb time. That's because brick and concrete has more mass and reflects the low end and holds it in the room. With regard to the slat widths etc. I would need to know the dimensions of your slat frames before I could answer that one for you but as you can see from above I'd be aiming at the low-mid frequncy range. cheers john

John, Ahhhh....This is exactly the kind of information I need. My goal is to be able to hear small EQ adjustments along with getting a handle on the low end. The walls in my particular room are 1 inch thick gypsum/drywall with a coat of plaster. (really, it's that thick - the house was built circa 1957) The front and side walls are "outside" walls with a 1 inch airgap and concrete block on the outside. The other wall are standard interior walls. If there are any other room treatments I should be considering, let me know. I'll work on the dimensions of the slat frames in the next day or so. I'm also wondering if giving the ceiling clouds a curved radius would help with diffusion? Anyway, if you don't mind cruching the numbers, I'll make another visit to my PayPal account. I can't ask people to do math for free and I've been lurking aorund here for well over a year now, so it only seems fair. I've learned a ton. Thanks! Craig

Cujo wrote:

Wow nice desk. I see you are a Paris user as well. Funny, we are both going through the same thing at the same time. What are you using to suspend the cloud? is it wire? I am also curious about making the panels reflective. Will using the 703 alone be counter-productive? also would 3/4 MDF be too thick? Also is 2" 703 of any use on the ceiling or should I double it? C

Thanks Cujo, You know, I believe we have talked on the PARIS NG chats before. Yes, I built this desk after Sakis visited my old room and saw I had my crts directly between my monitors. Nothing like having a mastering engineer come in and say.... "This is all WRONG! You have NO SOUNDSTAGE! Your CRTS are in the way!!" LOL! live and learn I dont know if you can tell from the pic but those are 20" crts. The desk is very low profile and the highest point is only 38 inches high. So it has been a big improvement as far as soundstage. Someday I'll be able to afford LCDs. :) I have to give credit to BrianT and DJ as I stole ideas from both of them on the desk design. Of course, I put my own style in there too. Craig (

I justre built my desk too, it is now smaller and angled. I'll check the height. I have my CRT monitors set back from the speakers. Your ceiling panels look so well put together, did you use spray adhesive? Did you pre drill the holes for the eye hooks? that skinny track lighting is grrovy. I wish I had the energy to bother with asthetics that much.

The celing panels are simply bolted together. No glue, etc. The fabirc was just test fabric to see if I liked the color.... I used regular pins to secure it. very low tech. :) I'm researching flame retardant fabirc this week. Although it looks like I will end up with wood faced ceiling panels after consulting with John. The lights a hologens from Home Depot. Easy yo put up. I'll probably put them on a variac soon so I can dim them. They will have to come down so I can do the side wall slat units. Craig

do th halgones get too hot?

Cujo wrote:

do th halgones get too hot?

Well, you wouldn't want to hold onto one after its been on for awhile..... Other than than, not too bad. They are a foot off the ceiling panels at the moment and heat is not an issue. Craig