new basement studio in working progress , lots of pics!!!

John, I read it in Ethan's 67 odd page article. (ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html) I posted the question here on purpose since I knwow that not everything that is put on the web is gospel, plus apart from the science of acoustics, I do believe after reading up that it is as much an art to make a room sound great as it is science. If indeed what you say is true and you have heard great quality sound come from smaller rooms, that is only good for me!! My room is close to a cube so I feel the limitations pressing down on me. I posted a thread last week including a design proposal. can you take a look and chime in. I hate to ask this, as there seem to be more folks here that have questions than answers. Hence the thread, with what i hope to be new ideas for putting together a room that has its limits, but is still effectively maximized.

All,

where did you read that?? I've seen high quality sound produced out of rooms much smaller. It's not the volume of a room it's the treatment IMO. cheers john

I too am interested in small room sizes, and I'm glad that there are differing opinions. FWIW, according to the book by Everest&Shea "How to Build a Small Recording Studio from Scratch" - published 2002, page 4 states : "... The BBC has concluded that any studio of less than 1500 cubic feet is not practical. Any saving in construction cost is outweighed by cost of correcting acoustical deficiencies - and usually successful correction of deficiencies is not feasible." My proposed control room is small at 1200 cubic feet. I am hoping that I don't need the quality level expected at the BBC, and can therefore make do with something a bit smaller than their recommended minimum. Cheers, Peter

hi Russ!

- Were you able to find acoustic caulking? I haven't found any here in France. If you know of a supplier in Germany I'd appreciate knowing what it is; I have good friends that could get some for me.

You can get Auralex Stopgap allmost all over the world. I'm shure there's a distributor in France too. Fu..ing expensive though! What I'm going to use is Butyl rubber. I learned from Eric Desart that it is a really good solution, cause it has very high internal damping and is relativly cheap. Also for sealing the windows (if any) it is a good thing. The manufacturer I will buy it from is MAPEI and the product is called Mapeflex (in Austria) Look here, they're worldwide: http://www.mapei.com Greetings

heh guys, after some mix jobs I have now time again to go on whith the studio building.Here are some pics of the diffusors I have put on the rear wall in the control room. They look really nice :P

Hi there! You`ve also found cheap diffusers at House Of Audio, don`t you? :-) I`ve also ordered 4 for testing and wanted to order more later (2 more weeks of studio planning, main building phase will start when everything`s finished), 12 all together I think. Thoughts about them? Do they work well? We`re going to build a studio in a basement, quite similar to yours. What about the dark ceiling? Is it the right thing to do with low ceiling like yours/ours? Regards, Schroeder

You`ve also found cheap diffusers at House Of Audio, don`t you? yes these are the house of audio diffusers... Do they work well they seem to work well What about the dark ceiling? Is it the right thing to do with low ceiling like yours/ours? I have built the ceiling to have it absorbent and used perforated metall whith insulation for it. This has the advantage that the highs are not so much absorbed and the ceiling sounds more lively. Otherwise the black color gives me less light reflections in the studio window!!! What will you do whith your ceiling? How big is your basement? Do you have room dimensions or a plan of it?

ok today I did some test measurements in my control room. I have used for that an omnidirectional microphone in the listening position and measeured whith etf software. In the front corners I used some tubes (40 cm diameter, 1m long) on which the speakers stand. On the sidewalls I used my perforated broadband absorbers. On the rear wall was the diffussor and my couch in the middle. On the ceiling is my acoustic ceiling. I have made some pics of the measurements and the problem frequencies. My question now is how should I treat the rest of the room to get those problem frequencies away? Can soffits whith integrated bass traps help me here. Especially for the 2 problematic bass frequencies at 84 Hz and 122 Hz? What should I do at the rear wall? I need some help here, please! here are the results:

here is a pic of the RT measurement. How can I fix that to a level of 400 ms or lower for all frequencies?

hello, can no one help here? Please I need some advice...

Hi! First to my question: I asked you about the ceiling not because of acoustical reasons. I just wondered how the psychological impression of a low black ceiling could be. You know - people always make ceilings as light as possible to make them look higher. But John`s advice was to make especially very low ceilings black so they should look higher. Therefore I wanted to ask you about your experience with a black ceiling in a low basement? We will only apply little absorption to the ceiling because they are very low (2.10m). I`m very contented with all the rest of our design. We will probably be planning another 2 weeks until the building phase will finally start! :-) To give you an impression I`ll attach a pic... (we`re not finished with all details in autocad...) To your room: You seemingly have not enough bass absorption. What about using all "unused" space for absorbers? You wouldn`t lose too much then... First try some different microphone positions when measuring. Some frequencies could be canceled when your exactly in an null point. My proposal: - Soffit mount your speakers. Apply basstraps in the soffits (below and above the monitors). Do you have monitors with adjustable bass-rolloff?? Soffit mounting will increase bass level around 6dB, don`t forget about that! - You didn`t fill the space above the ceiling plates with rockwool, do you? Fill it. Will improve absorption, too. - Make your backwall "one level". Simply apply rockwool around your diffusers, cover it with cloth. Then your diffusers are "flush mounted", looks better, will reduce early reflections from behind and probably will add little (higher) bass absorption. regards, Schroeder

You seemingly have not enough bass absorption. What about using all "unused" space for absorbers? You wouldn`t lose too much This is a point I know and I will fix that soon and it will give me a much better bass response. But I think the hughe peak at 84 Hz and the null at 122 Hz can´t be handled whith that. The other nulls in the higher mid range between 2kHz - 10kHz can profit from that more of bass and broadband absorption. Is the rolloff of the frequency response in the highs normal? Therefore I wanted to ask you about your experience with a black ceiling in a low basement? The black ceiling looks really good and feels good, that´s what everyone says when seeing it the first time. My decision for a black ceiling comes more from the thinking about the light reflections trough the studio window! You didn`t fill the space above the ceiling plates with rockwool, do you? Fill it. Will improve absorption, too. Yes I have filled the ceiling plates whith 2" acoustic fiberglass, so there is much absorption but still open highs. Make your backwall "one level". Simply apply rockwool around your diffusers, cover it with cloth. Then your diffusers are "flush mounted", looks better, will reduce early reflections from behind and probably will add little (higher) bass absorption. That was already my plan and I will do that soon. But I want cover it whith slats or perforated metall? Do you think this will work the same as whith cloth? Soffit mount your speakers. Apply basstraps in the soffits (below and above the monitors). Do you have monitors with adjustable bass-rolloff?? Soffit mounting will increase bass level around 6dB, don`t forget about that! Hmm, that´s a point where I don´t know if it really makes that much sense for my problems? I have planed to built a tupe trap wall around the speakers on the front wall. Will the soffits give me so much more bass absoption and a huge better bass response?

You seemingly have not enough bass absorption. What about using all "unused" space for absorbers? You wouldn`t lose too much This is a point I know and I will fix that soon and it will give me a much better bass response. But I think the hughe peak at 84 Hz and the null at 122 Hz can´t be handled whith that. The other nulls in the higher mid range between 2kHz - 10kHz can profit from that more of bass and broadband absorption. Is the rolloff of the frequency response in the highs normal?

First of all I would really try to do some additional measuring with different mic positions, so you can be sure that these both frequencies are REALLY a problem in mixing position (Make sure you won`t sit right in the centre, in the middle between front and back wall). Check your modes. With your dimensions (3,80m, 3,10m, 2,21m) I get modes which don`t really match with your problem frequencies. Right dimensions? Nevertheless, check your modes and find out between which walls these modes are resonanting. Apply the absorber there. Use a helmholtz resonator which is tuned to your 84 Hz. In general I think any bass absorption will smoothen out the curve (think of the null - you can`t raise the curve after all....) . When you add tuned absorbers additionally, it should be perfect. High frequencies: Don`t know whether I`m right or not, but it seems that you`ve got lots of high frequency damping although your absorbers are covered with perforated metal plates? Ceiling absorbs too much highs? But neverthelesss: The more bass absorption you are going to apply, the smoother the whole response will be. Just take care of your highs by covering (for instance on the back wall) the absorbers with thin plates/foil. Another issue: There are always less highs because they are absorbed by air and all the surfaces in a much higher degree then the other frequencies...

Make your backwall "one level". Simply apply rockwool around your diffusers, cover it with cloth. Then your diffusers are "flush mounted", looks better, will reduce early reflections from behind and probably will add little (higher) bass absorption. That was already my plan and I will do that soon. But I want cover it whith slats or perforated metall? Do you think this will work the same as whith cloth?

Should work fine.

Soffit mount your speakers. Apply basstraps in the soffits (below and above the monitors). Do you have monitors with adjustable bass-rolloff?? Soffit mounting will increase bass level around 6dB, don`t forget about that! Hmm, that´s a point where I don´t know if it really makes that much sense for my problems? I have planed to built a tupe trap wall around the speakers on the front wall. Will the soffits give me so much more bass absoption and a huge better bass response?

Not just for your problems but will sound better in general. Don`t know if it`s worth the effort in your case. We have planned this from the scratch, you would do it afterwards - don`t know if you want to spend another few days for this. Will sound better in anyhow. Better bass response because there is no reflection from the wall which interferes... The tube trap will also work fine. Your decision. Regards, Schroeder

here are some new pics of the wood frames I have built around the diffusors. The are angled and are for bass absorbtion. Right now I have put some melamin absorbers into it but later I will fill them whith rockwoll and cover the front whith cloth or perforated metal. A question comes up here. Is it better for bass absorbtion to cover it whith cloth or maybe built some slats over it? the deepest point in the corners is 13". What insulation should I put in here? 4" and the rest air gap or complety filled whith insulation.

Yeah! Looks much better now! :-] For absorption of bass the surface doesn`t matter. It goes straight through... You`ll have more absorption of the high frequencies when you cover the rockwool with cloth and more highs left and absorption of the mids when you apply the perforated metal / slats, as you probably know. With slats you can tune the absorber to your special problem frequencies. You can`t change the holes in the metal pieces, can you? Just do some measuring after you`ve filled the rockwool in - without any surface. Let your measurings be your guide on that decision - cloth, metal, tuned slats? Fill the space completely with rockwool. That should work fine and doesn`t cost much. Bye, Schroeder PS. Last week of making plans in autocad... Next week main part of the studio building will begin... yeah! :-]

hey ms scope where did you get the black ceiling panels at? are the cross t's silver? it looks great. jdf

some new pics of the front wall in tube design. I did some measurements whith different speaker positions and I have noticed some huge dips between 80 -95 Hz and 120 - 135 Hz. The Rest seems to be ok. It doesn´t matter on which the position the speaker or the mic is it´s nearly the same in every constelation. How can I mfix that? If I make the rear wall absorbers whith slats tuned to this frequences will it help me? Or is it better to built another absorber maybe whith panel? I see that alot of studios are also using eq´s in the last steps of tuning the room? Maybe some one can help here ? :roll:

I see that alot of studios are also using eq´s in the last steps of tuning the room?

I'd avoid EQ - it creates more problems than it solves IMO. cheers john

Hi John, thanx for the info but how can I handle this problem? It seems to be a normal problem in small rooms. So how is this normally being solved? I mean more absorbtion for the other frequencies can not be the soulution or? The problem frequencies have around -20 dB compared to the others. If I use a good broadcast parametric eq for that?

The problem frequencies have around -20 dB compared to the others

can you hear this?? (i.e. as opposed to reading on your charts) cheers john

yes I can hear it, latter I will send you some measurements I did . I only want to beware that I mix to much of these frequencies when I´m mixing in the room!

heh guys I´m back whith my studio and will finish it in the next weeks. I had some work to do, so I had no time in the past 2 months to go on. But now I will finish it. Right now I´m finishing the recording area. I will post some new pics these days. So watch out...

.... :D

Nice lighting! 8) I like the "wash on the wall" effect (whatever they call that).