New Design with a few Con. Questions

Hey everyone, I have been working with my cousin to come up with a studio design we could fit inside what used to be an italian restaurant. The grey perimeter is a concrete fire wall (convieniently filled with sand to drowned out kitchen noise), we are building the studio inside the kitchen. We are planning on floating all the rooms and there is at least a foot and a half between every wall. I am of course looking for some critiques on the design, any help will be greatly apprieciated. I took the control room from a recent post I saw up on the forum. Thanks everybody for the help! Now for the relavent questions and yes I have read the reference threads and they have been more help than in practical application than all three of my Everest books: 1) First off, I plan on building the framing for the rooms using 2x4 on 16" centers, that is what I have come to understand is the standard, but I want to know if 2x6 are a better choice, not accounting for cost? 2) Still on the walls, once I have framed the walls, should I put the first layer of sheetrock(gypsum) on the inside then stand them up and put in the insullation or is it the other way around? 3) Is non-rigid insullation okay for in-wall application? And along the same lines is Roxul just mineral wool of a certain brand, and is this acceptable for in wall insullation? 4) Last one, I promise :lol: how do I get the insullation to stay in place, I mean I really don't see how to do it Thanks for all the help guys!! RIB

1) First off, I plan on building the framing for the rooms using 2x4 on 16" centers, that is what I have come to understand is the standard, but I want to know if 2x6 are a better choice, not accounting for cost? Generally the stiffer the better; 16" centers 2x4 or 24" centers 2x6 if you have the wall depth available; double frames beat any alternative by quite a bit, and if space is at all tight (or if you don't want to "map" nearly as many fasteners to avoid "collisions", then double 2x4 frames on 24" centers works just fine, especially with at least 2 layers of 5/8" drywall each side of the wall. If you have to use firecode wallboard anywhere due to code restrictions, then plan on an extra layer if you want best isolation; the firecode stuff has less mass than the standard sheet rock by about 6% so won't give quite what is expected from 5/8 layers. 2) Still on the walls, once I have framed the walls, should I put the first layer of sheetrock(gypsum) on the inside then stand them up and put in the insullation or is it the other way around? This is totally dependent on access; if you can get access to both sides of the wall (meaning both frames of a single sound barrier) then it's a pain to have to lift all that weight unnecessarily. Typically, when framing a double framed wall on two separate floated floors, you can do the first frame, add wallboard (following the methods in the REFERENCE section of course) then insulate, then build the second frame on the floor, fasten lath at 24" intervals across the studs, tip it up, attach sway braces and secure at the bottom, then insulate, then wallboard; again, this is greatly simplified. The REference section explains all the details I left out. 3) Is non-rigid insullation okay for in-wall application? And along the same lines is Roxul just mineral wool of a certain brand, and is this acceptable for in wall insullation? Within a wall, there is little difference in performance betwee standard fiberglas insulation and the heavier stuff - I feel that a combination of both makes the most sense - the roxul batts between studs, then filling the space BETWEEN the two insulated frames with standard UN-faced fiberglass batts - this gives a complete fill, helps keep things in place even more than just the LATH, and ensures that you have a slight compression within the wall cavity which will help damp the wall panels. Too much isn't good either, though; you do NOT want it to be pressing more than lightly against the wallboard's first layer, or you may WORSEN isolation by hurting the decoupling of the separate frames. 4) Last one, I promise how do I get the insullation to stay in place, I mean I really don't see how to do it Two methods that work; drive roofing tacks into the inside edges of the studs, leaving them stick out by about 1/4" - wrap twine around the nail heads and create a "web" for the insulation to rest against. Or, fasten lath (thin boards, typically 3/8" x 1-1/4", available at most home supply places in bundles, 3 feet long and sometimes pointed on one end. Short on time ATM, let me know if you need more; BTW, there is no good reason to avoid parallel frames for the double frame wall between your CR and the lower left Live room; isolation will be determined by the LEAST gap width, so you may as well use that little extra space for more room in the live room... Steve

Steve, First thanks for getting back to me so fast, my cousin (his forum name is overflownpro) said you would be able to give me the goods. I am not in a rush for the details, so take your time, you have a life too. I only have a few questions for you: 1) Is there a good explination of the actual framing of a room, walls, ceiling and floors on the forum, I couldn't find anything more specific than the diagrams at SAE. I feel I have a good grasp on it but I could use a point of reference if I feel like I'm over my head? 2) You said, the walls of two seperate rooms didn't need to be splayed, but I was under the assumtion that the two glass doors needed to be angled? 3) What does " if you don't want to "map" nearly as many fasteners to avoid "collisions" mean? 4) Lastly, and anyone feel free to chime in here, I like the isolation provided by seperate frames and want to keep that, but if anyone has any suggestions I'm sure you know better than I. Thanks a ton for all the help, gentlemen!!! RIB

Hey Rib, got a minute so thought I'd stay caught up (for a change :=) 1) Is there a good explination of the actual framing of a room, walls, ceiling and floors on the forum, I couldn't find anything more specific than the diagrams at SAE. I feel I have a good grasp on it but I could use a point of reference if I feel like I'm over my head? Actually no, there isn't as far as I remember; there are so many "unique" situations (wierd basements, 3rd floor attics, etc, it just didn't seem worth doing anything that "generic", since the basics are at the SAE site for the most part. Add to this the tendency of each member to come up with some heretofore un-thought-of material he has a pick-up load of for free, and... 2) You said, the walls of two seperate rooms didn't need to be splayed, but I was under the assumtion that the two glass doors needed to be angled? This has been shown to be less benefit in most cases than once thought; for studio windows, it can help re-direct window sound reflections down and into an absorber in front of the console, and it can help with visible GLARE when looking into/out of the CR; but any flutter frequency between that closely spaced surfaces is high frequency and minimal, compared to keeping a wider air gap for better isolation. http://www.audio-muziek.nl/audiotechniek/acoustics.pdf 3) What does " if you don't want to "map" nearly as many fasteners to avoid "collisions" mean? http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=13436 If you drive a screw thru a second layer of wallboard and into the head of one holding the FIRST layer, that's a "collision" - causes a big "owie" in the wallboard, weakens the layer and leaf, needs patching, hard to see through all that "blue air" :evil: ... 4) Lastly, and anyone feel free to chime in here, I like the isolation provided by seperate frames and want to keep that, but if anyone has any suggestions I'm sure you know better than I. No argument from me... Steve

Just a thought: Would this project benefit from John's Inside Out Wall Design? Seems there's lots o' room there... (drool) :roll:

That's a definite possibility; especially for some of the shared walls in the live room, and the drum room as well... Steve