do you know any good books on acoustics?

HI! i'm a... let's say a senior noob :lol: and wan't to really understand acoustics. i find it really hard to search for all the important posts, so i'm thinking of buying a book. i know some are better, and some are s**t, but i was taught not to judge a book by it's cover :wink: is there a book, wich is commonly known to be a good starting point? THX!

Welcome- you can try this for starters. http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html I'm the australian who wrote it :) cheers john

i've read this site several times... explained alot but i think i'd like to go into some more details... John, did you write any books on studio design? that'd be the first one i'd buy... if not, do you know any good ones? Thx for the reply!

nobody read any good books on studio design and acoustics? i could buy whatever is most popular on amazon, but i doubt it would be the best one i could get...

Food, > do you know any good ones? < Besides Everest's classic Master Handbook of Acoustics another great book is Recording Studio Design by Philip Newell. Click HERE to see that page at the Barnes & Noble site. --Ethan

thx Ethan Winer! i'll go and have a look at those!

A few more, many of them get to be expensive but these are all worth the cost. Edit: Since you asked for a starting point I second The Master Handbook of Acoustic by Everest ( and the cost is very low less then $30 US) I put the rest in order what to move to next Acoustic Absorbers and Diffusers: Theory, Design, and Application by Trevor J. Cox, Peter D'Antonio -very good but expensive $150 but it covers so much I learned the hard and expensive way Sound System Engineering by Carolyn Davis, Don Davis - more then acoustics but a must have for anyone working in audio Noise Control in Buildings: A Guide for Architects and Engineers by Cyril M., Ph.D. Harris - Out of print but somewhere on the net an organization has permission to sell reprints - the basics of soundproofing Theoretical Acoustics by Philip M. Morse, K. Uno Ingard - ok what is really going on Handbook of Acoustics by Malcolm Crocker - covers all types of acoustics Room Acoustics by Heinrich Kuttruff - more theory Fluid Mechanics : Volume 6 (Course of Theoretical Physics) by E M Lifshitz, L D Landau - at this point join an acoustic anonymous, 12 step program you are really addicted, you now find your self doing math problems as entertainment Dan Nelson

A friend of mine who I trust quite a bit with this sort of thing lists these as his favorites: Theory of Acoustics - entry level

Acoustic Design and Noise Control, Michael Rettinger, Chemical Publishing Co., Inc. Acoustic Techniques for Home & Studio, F. Alton Everest, Tab Books Acoustics in the Built Environment, D. Templeton, Architectural Press, 1997 Architectural Acoustics, M. David Egan, McGraw Hill, 1988 Architectural Acoustics, Thomas D. Northwood, Dowden Hutchinson & Ross Architectural Acoustics, W. J. Cavanaugh, J.A. Wilkes, J. Wiley & Sons, 1999 Building a Recording Studio, Jeff Cooper, Synergy Group, Inc., 1996 Building a Small Budget Recording Studio, F. Alton Everest and Mike Shea, McGraw Hill, 1988 Environmental Acoustics, Leslie Doelle, McGraw Hill Recording Spaces, P. Newell, Focal Press, 1998 Simplified Design for Building Sound Control, J. Ambrose & J.E. Ollswang, J. Wiley & Sons, 1995 The Master Handbook of Acoustics, F. Alton Everest, McGraw Hill, 1994

Theory of Acoustics - advanced level

Acoustics for Studios and Auditoria, B. S. Mankovsky, Hastings House Auditorium Acoustics, edited by Robin Mackenzie, Halsted Press Book Elements of Acoustics, Samuel Temkin, John Wiley & Sons Fundamentals of Acoustics, Kinseler & Frey, Wiley & Sons, Inc. How They Sound - Concert and Opera Halls, L. Beranek, Acoustical Society of America, 1996 How to Design. Build and Test Complete Speaker Systems, David B. Weems, TAP Books Musical Acoustics, Carleen M. Hutchins, Dowden Hutchinson & Ross Noise and Vibration Control, Beranek, McGraw Hill Physical and Applied Acoustics, Meyer Neumann, Academic Press Book Room Acoustics, Heinrich Kuttruff, Halsted Press Secrets of Noise Control, Thumann & Miller, Fairmont Press Sound Control and Thermal Insulation of Buildings, Paul Close, Reinhold Publishing Sound System Engineering, D. & C. Davis, Focal Press, 1997 Speech Intelligibility & Speaker Recognition, Mones E. Hawley, Dowden Hutchinson & Ross Theory of Sound. Vols. I & II, J. W S. Rayleigh, Dover Press Vibration & Sound, Philip Morse, American Institute of Physics

Acoustical Measurements

Acoustic Measurements, Leo Beranek, John Wiley & Sons Acoustic Noise Measurements, J.R. Hassall & K.Zaveri, Bruel & Kjaer, 1979 Acoustical Tests & Measurements, Don Davis, Howard W Sams & Co. Frequency Analysis, R. B. Randall, Bruel & Kjaer, 1977 Handbook of Noise Measurements, Peterson & Gross, General Radio The Measure of Audio, AES Proceedings UK Conference 1997 Time Delay Spectrometry, AES Anthology, 1988

History of Acoustics and Audio Technology

Collected Papers, Vern Knudsen, Acoustical Society of America Evolution of the Audio Recorder, P. V. Praag, EC Designs, 1997 From Tinfoil to Stereo, W.L. Welch & L.B.S. Burt, Univ. Press of Florida, 1994 Music, Physics & Engineering, Harry F. Olson, Dover Publications (orig. 1952) On the Sensations of Tone, Herman Helmholtz, Dover Press Studio, Broadcasting and Recording Technology Handbook of Multichannel Recording, Alton Everest, TAP Books Magnetic Recording, Charles E. Lowman, McGraw Hill Modern Recording Techniques, Robert Runstein, Howard W Sams & Co. The New Communication Technologies, M.A. Mirabito, Butterworth-Heinemann, 1997 The New Stereo Soundbook, R. Astreicher & F. Alton Everest, Audio Engineering Associates, 1998 The Recording Studio Handbook, John M. Woram, Sagamore Publishing Tonmeister Technology, Michael Dickreiter, Temmer Enterprises, Inc., 1989 TV Sound Operations, Alkin, Hastings House Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook, G. Davis & R. Jones, Hal Leonard, 1987

Encyclopedias and Miscellaneous

IAC Noise Control Reference Handbook, M. Hirschorn, industrial acosutics, 1989 Audio & HiFi Engineer's Pocket Book,V. Capel, Butterworth-Heinemann, 1994 Audio Cyclopedia, Howard Tremaine, Howard W Sams & Co. Handbook for Sound Engineers, G.M. Ballou, Sams, 1991 NAB Engineering Handbook, National Association of Broadcasters, 1999 Sound Engineer's Pocket Book, M. Talbot-Smith, Focal Press, 1995 Telecommunication Engineer's Pocket Book, S. Winder, Newnes, 1998

Dan and Sam, > I put the rest in order what to move to next < Those are impresive lists, thanks for posting. It might also be useful to identify which of those books rely on math and physics, and which offer more common-sense explanations like Everest's book to be accessible to more people. --Ethan

I put my list in order of readability, Acoustic Absorbers and Diffusers: Theory, Design, and Application by Trevor J. Cox, Peter D'Antonio is somewhat surprising readable it is, I was expecting more math (hoping really to some of it explained) It is really too bad the book costs so much it would really help people avoid some mistakes. A few comments on the other books listed Architectural Acoustics, M. David Egan, McGraw Hill, 1988 is also a great book but is targeted for large rooms as readable as Everest I'm not a big fan of the Cooper book is was good, but there are better ways to do some of the stuff in the book now. How They Sound - Concert and Opera Halls, L. Beranek, Acoustical Society of America, 1996 is a very interesting study comparing something like 10-15 concert halls. His text books are difficult but this is pretty easy to read. I'm not big fan of Newell's books I have read so far, but I hear good things about his latest Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook, G. Davis & R. Jones, Hal Leonard, 1987 is very handy and easy to read but I think they told some good stuff out in the second edition. Dan

Dan, > I'm not big fan of Newell's books I have read so far, but I hear good things about his latest < I bought his latest on the recommendation of Jeff Szymanski. It's very good! And maybe you saw the quote I posted recently (forget where) from his definition of standing waves? The way he defined it is exactly what I've been arguing for several years - that a standing wave is not the same as a mode. So of course I liked that! [ducking] :wink: --Ethan

wow! that's some list there Sword9! if he has all of these books, he could build a nice studio, if he ever sold them! thx for the effort!

The way he defined it is exactly what I've been arguing for several years - that a standing wave is not the same as a mode. So of course I liked that!

:shock: FINALLY!!! Yes yes yes!! I've been "of that opinion" for a couple of years, but every time I posted a question about it, somehow it got sidetracked. Ok, that is what I thought. Thanks Ethan 8) :D !! Alright, if that is a fact, then this brings some up some other questions. But I'll start another thread for those. In the meantime, you might want to check this out. :shock: :shock: Standing waves are even wierder than I thought http://www.glafreniere.com/sa_plane.htm fitZ

Ethan, after I posted the reply above, I found this. Read ERICS reply. ie STANDING WAVES=ROOM MODES!!! http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... nator+test :? Here we go again. fitZ

"Ethan, after I posted the reply above, I found this. Read ERICS reply. ie STANDING WAVES=ROOM MODES!!! " - GODDAM IT RICK, I sure wish you hadn't done that - got any MORE salt you can rub on things? Crap... Seriously - ANY, and I mean ANY, name-calling or comments I don't consider respectful WILL BE TRASHED, be warned; I'm busy enough these days without having to REFEREE the infamous feud again, so it will just get DELETED if it happens. Discussion, fine; everybody here knows what I mean... Steve BTW, Ethan, is this definition in Recording Studio Design or one of Newell's other books, and what page please? (Don't worry, I'm already used to disagreeing with some of his writings somewhat - overall, however, I have to agree he's quite good) - Thanks...

GODDAM IT RICK, I sure wish you hadn't done that - got any MORE salt you can rub on things? Crap...

:shock: :shock: WHOAH Steve!! Excuse me? I did NOT mean to pour salt on anything! On the contrary. This has to do with scientific explanations of things, and when I find conflict of direct definitions from people I consider authority on the subjects, I want to clear it up so I understand FACT. At this level it has nothing to do with "fueds", opinion, conflict, accusation, salt or what ever. It is simply a matter of scientific fact, PERIOD! My first exposure to STANDING WAVE/ROOM MODE relationship was at Homerecording.com, and was what I consider "netfact" when compared to statements I previously read in The Master Handbook of Acoustics by Alton Everest. Hence my quest for a better understanding, as even Mr. Everest leaves much to be desired when it comes to a direct STANDING WAVE/ROOM MODE definition. Let me quote him here for clarity. On Page 87.... " TWO WALL RESONANCE Figure 6-3 shows two parallel reflective walls of infinite extent. When a loudspeaker radiating pink noise excites the space between the walls, the wall-air-wall system exhibits a resonance at a frequency of fo(Fzero)=1,130/2L, when L=the distance in feet between the two walls and 1,130 the speed of sound in feet per second. A similar resonance occurs at 2fo, 3fo, 4fo, ......etc, down through the spectrum. The fundamental frequency fo is CONSIDERED(emphasis added by me) a natural frequency of the space between the walls and it is ACCOMPANIED by a train of modes that also exibits resonances." You will notice NO mention of STANDING WAVES in this exerpt. However, one is left with a distinct impression there is a difference between a "fundamental" frequency and its TRAIN of "modes" Let me quote further in the same chapter on page 100....... "MODE SUMMARY There are three types of acoustical resonances(natuaral frequencies, standing waves, normal modes. The axial modes are made up of two waves going in opposite directions,travelingparallel to one axis, and striking only two walls. ......" This last statement pretty much sums up my understanding of the difference between "standing waves which do NOT move, and "modes" which as Mr. Everest points out, are TRAVELING. However, I still do not understand the difference between "fundamental frequency", and standing waves. Steve, you know me. I have no interest in furthering personal conflict between parties who frequent these forums, nor do I have any motive for pointing out difference of "expressed definition" by these members other than my own distaste for "scientific" ambiguity. It is in this interest that I posted that link, as it furthers "netfact" discrepancy in basic acoustical discussions on the net. Furthermore, I detest authority "opinion" that uses credentials as a badge of truth, that does nothing more than confuse scientific fact, not that that is the case here. But you have to admit, that for such a downright basic acoustic phenomena explanation, it seems ludicrous to find such difference of expressed definition. I have yet to find a DIRECT explanation of the difference between modes and Standing waves, other than one travels, and one does not. I for one am NOT an expert, and have ONLY these authorities to trust, and when that trust is destroyed, it FUCKING PISSES ME OFF!! :twisted: :twisted: Nothing is more deserving of questioning than difference of these expressed definitions or connections. So, with all due respect, I am NOT going to apologize for ANYTHING here. This is an acoustics forum, and if I can't question these discrepancys here, fued or not, then this forum is NOT based on truth, only opinion. :evil: I rest my case. fitZ :roll:

Rick, > Standing waves are even wierder than I thought > http://www.glafreniere.com/sa_plane.htm There's a lot of stuff there. If there's a particular part of that page you want me to look at, please specify where. > STANDING WAVES=ROOM MODES!!! < This is exactly what I was talking about. Standing waves are not room modes. That some people consider the two equal does not make it so. One is a wave and the other is a propensity to vibrate. A room has its modes whether something is making sound in the room or not. But no waves can exist until sound exists. --Ethan

Steve, > is this definition in Recording Studio Design < Yes. > what page please? < I found this sentence in the Glossary:

"It should be stressed that standing waves always exist when like waves interfere, whether a resonance situation exists or not, and that the common usage of the term 'standing wave' to describe only resonant conditions is both erroneous and misleading."

Elsewhere in the Glossary he uses the term "resonant standing wave" to distinguish traditional standing waves from those created by simple acoustic interference. --Ethan

Hello Ethan. This statement: > STANDING WAVES=ROOM MODES!!! < Was taken directly from Erics reply that I linked to. I hope you didn't get the impression "I" was saying that I agree. Emphatically NO. My impression is Standing waves do NOT equal room modes. And if I cause futher conflict between other "parties" and yourself, I am truly sorry. It was not my intention. Only to point out different "expressed connections of other parties that did NOT agree with yours and Mr. Newells statement. THATS ALL. Im simply trying to establish fact. fitZ[/quote]

fitZ, > if I cause futher conflict < I know you are not looking to stir up trouble. Heck, I don't see why discussing acoustic science should ever create friction! --Ethan

:?

Ethan Winer wrote:

Standing waves are not room modes.

But room modes are standing waves. So says Newell. So says Ethan? Chicken...egg...chicken...egg...chicken...egg... For anyone interested in what the original argument was actually about: In the context of low frequency behavior in small rooms, the terms "modes" and "standing waves" are often used interchangably. I am concluding that whether this is right or wrong largely come down to context. Examples:

David Huber and Robert Runstein in 'Modern Recording Techniques' Chapter 3 wrote:

Standing waves (also known as room modes) occur when sound is reflected off of parallel surfaces and travels back on its own path, thereby interfering with the amplitude response characteristics of the room.

Would be wrong in the strictest sense. However...

Leo Beranek in 'Acoustics' Chapter 10 wrote:

Waves can travel in the room backward and forward between any two opposing walls. They can travel also around the room involving the walls at various angles of incidence. If these angles are chosen properly, the waves will return on themselves and set up stationary or standing waves. Each standing wave is a normal mode of vibration for the enclosure.

Is completely correct. Context, folks. We're all correct. Let's call this one finished for the sake of Steve's sanity!!! :shock: :D

Milton (I mean Jeff), Great Avatar, BTW. I love that movie! > So says Newell < Not so - see my Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:51 pm post above. > Would be wrong in the strictest sense. < Yes, it's wrong. > Context, folks. We're all correct. Let's call this one finished for the sake of Steve's sanity!!! < Okay. For now. I reserve the right to argue this again in the future. <ducking & running as fast as I possibly can> --Ethan

Gone off-topic. Go here instead: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 3594#23594