How much work to do here?

Hi everyone, My name is John and I have been reading the forum for a little while now. I've read up on how to build things, and I will do a lot more research (reading more old posts) before I ask any questions about how to do some real construction. For now, though, I'm wondering what projects I should plan on doing in the future, based on my layout and problems now. I've put a picture of the layout now - blue is a window, red is the fireplace. I also show where I've attached hooks to the ceiling to hang up big blankets for absorption. The grey space is outside of the room. I am located in the downstairs of a house, in a fairly large single room, with four windows One large window with two smaller windows on its side, and then another medium window on a separate wall. Problems I have now: 1) I'm in the downstairs of a house, so when people walk around upstairs, I hear wood creaking. 2) Lawnmowers, leaf blowers, motorcycles, and truck noises from the outside leak in through the windows. 3) Sound escapes the house, and I don't want to create any issues with the neighbors. There have been none so far, and both immediate neighbors know about the in-house studio. I keep the room pretty sparse, with a lot of empty space in the middle, and I've got a great vibe. I don't think I want to cut the room up much, if at all, because it would kill the feel of the room. I am against splitting it down the middle, even though there would be enough room on each side. It would reduce the feeling of spaciousness in the room. I'd also like to keep the natural light from the windows, which is really nice. But, I know windows are the weakest link here and I must do something about them. So, my questions are: 1) Is the room too small to do a room within a room construction (minus a floating floor)? I don't want to feel cramped. 2) Similarly, will a hanging ceiling cut down on the height too much? 3) Should I try fitting a vocal booth in the room? 4) For the windows: I could mount a piece of plexiglass on each of the three windows on one wall, and then one really large piece over top of the three together. I'd have to beautify it up, but would that cut down the type of sound I'm worried about? For the remaining window, I don't know what I would want to do - I want to be able to open one of them, but I know that's a big no-no for soundproofing. 5) Lastly, there's a fireplace in the room, and I have pretty much ignored it until now, but how much sound could be coming in from that - should I soundproof that? Essentially, I'm just trying to guage how much work I need to do to this room, so I can spend some time researching how to best execute the plans I come up with. Thank you all for taking the time to read my post, I know it's pretty hefty for a first post. Sincerely, John

John - It's tight - but if you biuld an inside out wall structure and add slots into the corners and open fibreglass with cloth covering the remaining flat surfaces, add a RC ceiling and you are in biz. The green line is curtains over the windows. It's to scale - that's how big a kit is :) cheers John

John, Thank you so much for taking the time out to reply to my post. I have been thinking it over the last few days, and I am going to use that design. I'm wondering about the ceiling - whether or not it will be too low or not. I've been reading a lot of back posts and it seems to be that if your ceiling can't be high enough, it should be very absorptive. There are a few threads I'm going to re-read, and try and estimate how much height I'll be losing based on what materials I've been using. Then, I learned from the SAE site that I've been a victim of over-foaming. I've got a lot of auralex foam in the room, and only some bass traps, so I think that may be a problem with the room also. I believe the slat resonaters are the key to that. There's a lot to learn, and I'm reading up on all of this stuff before I start asking more questions. Thank you! - John

I have been reading up on studio construction, and have a few more questions. If anyone can take the time to answer the questions, I would appreciate it. 1) Where is a good place to go online to study soffit mounting speakers? Once you set the size of the space for the speakers, are you stuck with that size – so you can’t upgrade monitors? Also, where do the wires go through? I’m still reading up on soffit mounting. 2) Would building amp and drum platforms decrease the amount of noise leaving the room, or would the difference be very small? 3) Instead of building a hanging ceiling, would treating the floor above be effective? I was thinking of treating the floors above instead of doing the hanging ceiling, to avoid the difficulty of building the ceiling and also losing the room height, as well as saving costs (possibly, though I haven't budgeted yet). I don’t know if I’m able to handle building a suspended ceiling, time-wise and skill wise. But I could do some work to the level above the studio. The main purpose is to provide isolation, so that footsteps aren’t in the recordings, and late night monitoring doesn’t disturb those upstairs. I will be soundproofing the walls and windows, but would like to avoid doing work on the ceiling. I also don’t want to disturb the air vents in place in the studio, although I am going to design panels to be placed over the vents, should the air conditioning need to be on and I need to be doing recordings. 4) Is a carpet floor to be avoided? I have read about problems with carpets absorbing mid-frequencies only. I would like to build drum and amp platforms, but for the whole room, would eliminating the carpet be a good idea? If anyone has the time and patience to answer these questions, it would be greatly appreciated. I have been reading the SAE site and other online resources, as well as books I have. Regards, John

Hi John, I've got a bit of time at the moment so I'll try to help you.Please note that I'm no expert at this, but can offer some advice, so certainly consider what others have to say :)

1) Where is a good place to go online to study soffit mounting speakers? Once you set the size of the space for the speakers, are you stuck with that size – so you can’t upgrade monitors? Also, where do the wires go through? I’m still reading up on soffit mounting.

http://www.genelec.com/support/faq/faq19.php http://www.genelec.com/support/faq/faq20.php http://www.genelec.com/support/soffit.php Also check Paul's studio build diary here: http://forum.studiotips.com/ He's just recently been building his soffits.

2) Would building amp and drum platforms decrease the amount of noise leaving the room, or would the difference be very small?

It depends on what you're planning to do with the whole floor I guess.Sorry if you told us earlier what you're doing with it and if I missed it,,..but...If you're floating the floor in your recording room (where you'll play drums and your amp-ed stuff) then platforms shouldn't be necessary.If you're not floating the floor they would probably help a to isolate the low frequencies a bit.

3) Instead of building a hanging ceiling, would treating the floor above be effective? I was thinking of treating the floors above instead of doing the hanging ceiling, to avoid the difficulty of building the ceiling and also losing the room height, as well as saving costs (possibly, though I haven't budgeted yet). I don’t know if I’m able to handle building a suspended ceiling, time-wise and skill wise. But I could do some work to the level above the studio

well it depends on what you mean by "treating the floor above"? How would you treat it?If you think it would be easier to work on a floor than on a ceiling then you could maybe consider floating the floor above and isolating up and down-stairs.

4) Is a carpet floor to be avoided? I have read about problems with carpets absorbing mid-frequencies only. I would like to build drum and amp platforms, but for the whole room, would eliminating the carpet be a good idea?

Again depends on what your other surfaces will be covered with.Carpet I would think absorbs more of high and high-mid frequencies than just mid, but yeah you've got the right idea of its effect. Timber flooring is probably nicer (looking and "sounding") but again it might be expensive...So i guess this one depends on a few things. I hope this helps a little :) cheers

Hi Sen, Thanks for the links to the genelec website. I read them all, and found them very informative. 1) Re: soffit mounting I checked out Paul’s studio build diary, and MAN is that an intense project! He’s really doing a lot of work for his studio, and it looks very impressive. His soffit walls actually look like the ones that John Sayers put on the design he posted for my room. So, I am going to be doing a lot of looking into how Paul built his. It looks like once you soffit mount the speakers, you are locked into that size. So, I may have to choose some new studio monitors that are better than what I have now, if I know I’ll be using them for a long time. Also, is another benefit of soffit mounting increased soundproofing of the speakers? If the speakers are decoupled from the walls, and the soffit structure is filled with mineral fiber, it makes sense that a lot of noise transmission would be cut down. 2) Re: amp/drums isolation I don’t plan on floating the floor, because I’m on ground level. Although, I think that if I built walls overtop the existing walls, as well as covered over the windows, I wouldn’t have to use platforms to cut down on the sound. The main benefit would be for recording purposes, not necessarily sound isolation purposes – or would it? 3) Re: ceiling/above floor treatment I was thinking about putting a few layers on the floor (MDF, sheetrock, mineral fiber, or whatever would be used) and then some carpeting. I would also need to do something for the creaky stairs, though. It may be easier to work on the ceiling, but I really want to avoid doing that, for now at least. I’m not sure if I can get the isolation I want without doing the ceiling, though. 4) Re: carpeting Aside from the carpeting on the floor, I think I want the ceiling to be very absorptive, especially overtop of the drums. I’d probably use the foam that I have there now, and maybe put some other foam around it. I’ve got a large triangle of foam (made of 2x2ft squares) above the drums. However, I’m going to be rethinking my acoustic treatment after I build the walls overtop the current walls. And, a new question: 5) Would putting a slight angle on the wall with the window (see picture above) make enough of a difference to be worthwhile? Thanks again for the help. Sincerely, John

John Shryock wrote:

Hi everyone, My name is John and I have been reading the forum for a little while now. I've read up on how to build things, and I will do a lot more research (reading more old posts) before I ask any questions about how to do some real construction. For now, though, I'm wondering what projects I should plan on doing in the future, based on my layout and problems now. I've put a picture of the layout now - blue is a window, red is the fireplace. I also show where I've attached hooks to the ceiling to hang up big blankets for absorption. The grey space is outside of the room. I am located in the downstairs of a house, in a fairly large single room, with four windows One large window with two smaller windows on its side, and then another medium window on a separate wall. Problems I have now: 1) I'm in the downstairs of a house, so when people walk around upstairs, I hear wood creaking. 2) Lawnmowers, leaf blowers, motorcycles, and truck noises from the outside leak in through the windows. 3) Sound escapes the house, and I don't want to create any issues with the neighbors. There have been none so far, and both immediate neighbors know about the in-house studio. I keep the room pretty sparse, with a lot of empty space in the middle, and I've got a great vibe. I don't think I want to cut the room up much, if at all, because it would kill the feel of the room. I am against splitting it down the middle, even though there would be enough room on each side. It would reduce the feeling of spaciousness in the room. I'd also like to keep the natural light from the windows, which is really nice. But, I know windows are the weakest link here and I must do something about them. So, my questions are: 1) Is the room too small to do a room within a room construction (minus a floating floor)? I don't want to feel cramped. 2) Similarly, will a hanging ceiling cut down on the height too much? 3) Should I try fitting a vocal booth in the room? 4) For the windows: I could mount a piece of plexiglass on each of the three windows on one wall, and then one really large piece over top of the three together. I'd have to beautify it up, but would that cut down the type of sound I'm worried about? For the remaining window, I don't know what I would want to do - I want to be able to open one of them, but I know that's a big no-no for soundproofing. 5) Lastly, there's a fireplace in the room, and I have pretty much ignored it until now, but how much sound could be coming in from that - should I soundproof that? Essentially, I'm just trying to guage how much work I need to do to this room, so I can spend some time researching how to best execute the plans I come up with. Thank you all for taking the time to read my post, I know it's pretty hefty for a first post. Sincerely, John

John, have you researched your family tree? You might be related to Gordon Shryock, who was/is living here, after having a pretty good run as a good engineer. He won some Grammys I think. Check it out. Brent

That's pretty interesting, Brent. I'm going to look into that. Thanks!

John Shryock wrote:

Hi Sen, Thanks for the links to the genelec website. I read them all, and found them very informative.

No problem John..pleasure :)

It looks like once you soffit mount the speakers, you are locked into that size.

No John you don't have to be "locked".When you go back and read some more (if you do :) ) of Paul's thread you'll notice that he's provided for his upgrade in future.You can just build your soffits with some bigger speakers in mind (check dimensions of some potential upgrades for you) and then build a smaller box to house your current speakers and put it inside the soffits.The air gap between the "2 boxes" would probably be filled with insulation to kill any possible resonances between them.If you build a stiff enough wall, you'll be fine :)

Also, is another benefit of soffit mounting increased soundproofing of the speakers? If the speakers are decoupled from the walls, and the soffit structure is filled with mineral fiber, it makes sense that a lot of noise transmission would be cut down.

Yes the transmission would be greatly reduced with a firm soffit wall.Also if you have a massive stiff wall, no sound energy (or very little) will be lost in those vibrations.So you'll be able to hear your speakers' lower freequencies without any energy beeing lost on the way (into the soffit wall) Ideal soffit wall would probably made out of concrete or bricks, but for a lot of ppl it's impossible to build in small home/project studio setups.

The main benefit would be for recording purposes, not necessarily sound isolation purposes – or would it?

John, the drum/amp risers or platforms are usually built exclusively for isolation purposes.I don't think your quality of recorded sound would improve or degrade because of them.Instead, if you're not concerned with isolation, spend the money and effort into acoustical treatment, which will surely improve the sound quality.

Would putting a slight angle on the wall with the window (see picture above) make enough of a difference to be worthwhile?

Seeing how much room you have to work with you'd lose some valuable space.If breaking up the parallel surfaces is what you have in mind, I would just try to break up that "window wall" with some diffusion or something.You could also heavily absorb it :? ...maybe... :) cheers