Anyone used Auralex U-boats?

Hi! Have anyone on this forum floated floors with the U-boats from Auralex? Did a search, but did not find any on this forum actually been using them..yet. But if so, did they work as promised & what spacing did you use? I know they might not be the cheapest buy, but it`s not an option for me to tear down a room and do it all again because I was cheap... If I know they work I won`t mind spending the xtra cash. Anyone with hands on exp. with the boats? Thanks Stein

NO WAY!! Way too expensive, just get 1/2" 60 durometer neoprene rubber and cut them into 2"x2" pieces. For U-boats alone I was going to pay $2500. For the neoprene which is the same thing, only without the high price my cost is only $150.

I'm not arguing that U-boats aren't expensive, but if you intend to use your studio for more than about 10 years, I REALLY wouldn't advise using neoprene - EPDM, which is the material U-boats are made of, lasts about 25 years under the same conditions. You can still buy EPDM 60 duro rubber, and although it will be more expensive than the neoprene, it will be less than the pre-shaped U-boats. Remember, if you have to replace these it means tearing up at least your floor; if your walls are floated on top of the floor, then you're talking about even MORE serious demolition to replace pads... Steve

Great!!! Now you tell me! I am planning to be in my studio space as long as I can.

What does EPDM stand for? Trying to find it here in Sweden. anyone?

http://www.materialscraps.com/Merchant2 ... _Code=EPDM http://www.rubbercal.com/epdm.html Second link gives the full name - if you click on the pdf price list, you'll see that the 1/2" stuff is $40 per foot, 10 foot minimum, so $400 minimum price - if you figure 1-1/2 x 3" pucks (crosswise of joists) you get 32 pucks per lineal foot, or 320 pucks for $400, give or take. The spacing should be about 4 feet for a wood floated floor,using 24" centers, 5 feet using 16" centers, and 6 feet using 12" centers - this last is what I would recommend if doing a wood floated floor, because the closer spacing of joists makes the floor stiffer and less likely to ring. you still need to fill with rockwool (not the plant propagating loose stuff) but this will lower the resonance. so, for every 6 square foot of floor you need 1 puck, times 320 gives you about 1800 sf of space for $400 - this was quick off the top of my head, running late - (sue me if my math is off, sorry) Steve

ponkass wrote:

What does EPDM stand for?

Ethylene-propylene-diene monomer rubber Man I love google. define:EPDM

i should´ve had a round of whopass for not googling first.. sorry..=)

Steve, let's say I am looking at 30 to 35 year of use out of my floated studio. What would you suggest to use then?

Carl, I'm not aware of anything in an elastomer with longer life than EPDM, but then I'm not an elastomeric engineer either - there may be something. I don't remember Paul Woodlock mentioning life expectancy of his Sylomer blocks (also not cheap) - maybe you could ask him? One thing that helps is to stay on the low side of loading for ANY material - the more compression, the shorter life. So if you calculate for 5% deflection instead of 15%, that would extend the useful life of any material. Beyond that, for a really long-term floor you'd probably be better off working with kineticsnoise.com; pouring a concrete slab and using their LiftSlab devices http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/noise/pdf/FLM.PDF They also use neoprene for some of their units; I hadn't noticed that before. If you check them out, maybe you could ask about life span of different materials, as this is what they do; if you find out more about this, please post it back here; I'm so swamped with life lately I doubt I'd have time to do this in the next few years... Steve

knightfly wrote:

...you'll see that the 1/2" stuff is $40 per foot, 10 foot minimum, so $400 minimum price...

Looks like prices went up last month, according to their EPDM Price List. It's now $461.40 for a 10 foot minimum... Up about 15%.

Wow, inflatable rubber; sounds kinky... :twisted: No wonder I had to trash a thread on young lesbians from the Buidling Forum ... :?

I've managed to acquire a dozen 3/8" rolls of neoprene. Each roll is 3.5" wide, perfect for placement under 2x4's. I bought these a while back, prior to my understanding of the weight calculations involved. I'll be framing my floor soon, and floating the walls & ceiling on top of the floor. I was thinking of putting the neoprene under the entire wall perimeter to compensate for the lack of thickness, and cutting 2" wide strips placing them at a closer distance under the floor joists. Should I just scrap the 3/8 and go for the 1/2, or would the above method give me satisfactory results? The rooms would be 12ft W x 16ft L x 10ft H with 3/4" mdf walls + 5/8 sheetrock.

Straight talk. Do the calculations and understand them. Otherwise you will make things WORSE! Paul Wooodlock has written many excellent posts and given references for for this. Andre

Thanks Andre... I'll be working on the calculations some more later today. The reason for my question was because I'm thinking of using a continuous strip of neoprene along the floor perimeter. Continuous strips would affect the load disbursement differently than individual pieces at "x" inches apart. I also thought that maybe continuous strips would alleviate some of the caulking issues since all of the perimeter is in direct contact with the floor, albeit at different pressures per square in. If my questions seem contrite, I apologize. It's not that I'm trying to give anyone a hard time, or that I'm disregarding the extraordinary amount of sage advice. Rather, I'm just trying to explore all my options while at the same time evaluating the multiple sources of information I'm acquiring lately. I do respect the advice and information I get here immensely...

Kevin, from what little I fully understand about elastomers, one thing you don't want to do is run them continuous in this case - part of what makes them work for isolation, is being able to "squish", or deform. The larger the square surface area being compressed, the less compressible they are, and the less the "give" - If you use a "puck" made from 3/8 thick material with a Durometer hardness of 60 and the puck has 1-1/2" of surface contact (as in, 1" wide strip with a piece of 2x lumber resting on it) then, if you've calculated total weight so each of those pieces is compressed by 15%, it will deform to 85% of 3/8", or about 0.319" - adding thickness to the same "footprint" and the same weight would add to the amount of deflection (I think) if the same amount of loading would cause the same PER CENT of deflection; I really need to find more time to study this phenom in depth, so please don't quote me on this. Elastomers, in order to "work" as they do, can NOT be constrained in the directions they are not being compressed; so for a floor, you can not "box in" the elastomer sideways; it has to be allowed to "squish" or it will act much harder. This is why the continuous sheet isn't a good idea - it will act the same as if you put a box around the rubber, except at the very edges. If you think you want more depth, simply contact cement two layers together - this part I'm sure of. For the main part of your floor, I would cut your 3" wide 3/8" thick stuff into 1-1/2" strips and contact cement two layers for each puck, making them 3/4" thick - this will keep them wide enough to not want to "fall over", from any side loading during construction - then, for under the wall area of the floor, just put them closer together. Don't forget to calculate total weight of the walls, spread over their length; and if you're also building a second ceiling that will bear on those walls, that total weight will also need to be averaged into the weight per puck along the perimeter. BTW, "contrite" means apologetic or sorry, "trite" means over-used and boring - and neither should apply here. The goal of this site is edification,and the absence of expensive and time-consuming mistakes that can be accomplished by learning BEFOREHAND how to, and NOT to, do things. To this end, you should NEVER stop asking questions until YOU are satisfied with your understanding. Only YOU know when that is, so ask until you fully understand. If that takes more time than usual, it's more than likely MY FAULT for being a crappy teacher, so don't give up until you get what you need... Steve

Hi Steve, Thanks for your considerate reply, and more so your patience with my questions. :oops: Since I don't necessarily need the depth, is it still ok to use single 1" strips of3/8" without stacking them? My floors are very nicely rendered and if the weight compresses the neoprene to within the anticipated thickness, there would be less caulking necessary along the 2x4's in between the strips. Having my 2x4's 3/4" off the ground makes me a bit uneasy. Besides, I've seen others post about anchoring their footers into the concrete using lag bolts, neoprene washers, etc... Is anchoring these footers to the floor something I necessarily need to do? Or is the entire framework of the floor a sufficient base to prevent lateral movement of the walls and ceiling?

Kevin, I'm not clear as to why you want to SEAL around your floated floor - is there a drawing up already of what you're doing? Steve

ktb1025 wrote:

Hi Steve, Thanks for your considerate reply, and more so your patience with my questions. :oops: Since I don't necessarily need the depth, is it still ok to use single 1" strips of3/8" without stacking them? My floors are very nicely rendered and if the weight compresses the neoprene to within the anticipated thickness, there would be less caulking necessary along the 2x4's in between the strips. Having my 2x4's 3/4" off the ground makes me a bit uneasy. Besides, I've seen others post about anchoring their footers into the concrete using lag bolts, neoprene washers, etc... Is anchoring these footers to the floor something I necessarily need to do? Or is the entire framework of the floor a sufficient base to prevent lateral movement of the walls and ceiling?

DO THE CALCUALTIONS to determine what your load is and what size of material you need to achieve the desired DEFLECTION. Then work on how to achieve that. Andre

knightfly wrote:

Kevin, I'm not clear as to why you want to SEAL around your floated floor - is there a drawing up already of what you're doing? Steve

No drawings, but plenty of photos... I'll post links to the ones on my site. Am I not to seal the perimeter of the floor? Or is the caulking to be done after the walls are up? I thought it would be necessary to caulk along the perimeter of the 2x4's on the floor.

That's why I wanted drawings - there are several ways to do floated floors/walls/ceilings, so there isn't always a need to seal along the frame between the floor and the supports. I'm a person who won't even consider building anything without a drawing first, because I don't like nasty little surprises - that's why I asked about drawings... Steve

I have no drawings, but I do have photos of a prototype I built last month in the adjacent warehouse to mine. My landlord was kind enough to let me have the space for 30 days until I moved in to the bigger, 3600 sq ft space that I'm about to build out as soon as I get my plans approved. Here are links to some photos of the old room I built and subsequently disassembled. I know it seems like alot of work to build and then take apart, but that gives me a better, firsthand feel for the process. http://www.thetalentfarm.com/studio_photos/oldroom1.jpg http://www.thetalentfarm.com/studio_photos/roomperimeter1.jpg http://www.thetalentfarm.com/studio_photos/windows2.jpg If it's ok with you, I'll start a seperate thread and post plans and pics of the new space and what I'm up against. Geez Steve 5:00am? (last post) I can't even find my coffe cup at 5:00am, let alone type legibly.

I used 'em to build a 6x10 platform. It was actually out of necessity: I would have rather just left the floor as it was (and keep the headroom, and not have to worry about resonance and 15% compresson and such), but there was a bunch of drain pipes, etc. sticking up out of the concrete, and I wanted to leave them there in case I ever sell the house and someone wants to put the bathroom back in. I've actually got about 10 left over; if anyone wants them, email me at gdgross[AT]gmail[DOT]com.

"Geez Steve 5:00am? (last post)" - I'm West coast; it was 2 AM and I'd not been to bed yet :shock: - nuthin' new... I "borrowed" one of Aaron's drawings to illustrate why it's not always necessary (or even good) to seal where you're talking about... Steve