The Container - Jack Piercy - Knightfly? Follow Up?

So I was reading some stuff over at: http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showth ... p?t=126297 this comment aimed at Steve's follow up thoughts - "What you seem to be concerned with is the building itself..in terms of housing what's inside. This of course is of no consequence.....To the actual build and design of the facility." has me miffed. What was his point about the structure, the containment etc. and it is what it is...? I have a garage and with basic bare unfinished walls with tongue and groove exterior sheathing - it has an STC of 23db. Meager at best. But, impressive since there is basically nothing there and a lot of door and a window giving some good leakage. The exterior sheathing could be beefed up in some plausible manner to help the basic containment of sound AND IT IS NOT WHAT IT IS THEN... it could be better... and then I can work on the interior mechanical and acoustical work to improve it still further (finish interior walls, insulate, caulk to all hell and back)... Steve, did you ever grok this with him? Why should not I not care about the container of my studio? thanks, David

David, I too was a bit miffed by Jack's tone, although in private emails it appeared to me that it was NOT intentional - the "ball dropping" in this case is all my fault, been too busy to eat half the time since then. I still have his private email and hope to resume this talk sometime soon, but it probably won't be immediate; I'm still vainly hoping to accomplish a few things on outdoor projects before we run out of good weather, and starting a joint room treatment project with probably 2 or 3 different companies' products, in addition to all the other stuff which occasionally lets me get more than 4 hours sleep... So far, I've yet to have a member come back and say my suggestions didn't work; so, until/if I can get Jack to 'splain hisself, I'm sticking to my guns on what works. In my opinion, you CAN'T ignore the container, especially in limited space. I've helped people build economical free-standing rooms who've reported that they couldn't hear drums from 10 feet away; the rooms have always needed treatment inside to actually sound good, but that's a given. Point is, I tend not to argue with success, and mine's been NOT to ignore ANYTHING I'm aware of. Each 23 dB of isolation is harder than the previous one - but by total sealing, and beefing up leaves and widening air/insulation gaps, you can get a long ways toward silence - which is definitely golden, when dealing with neighbors who may be looking for a reason to complain anyway - after all, you're living YOUR dream, and they may be jealous... Steve

Good points Steve. Joel

David: I just read the thread and Jack is suffering from thinking he was coming in as a Saviour and finding out that there is plenty of good advice there, including Steve's. Jack is trying to save face. I noticed that Jack did not respond to Steve's request for texts on "modern" isolation methods. I also noticed that He has ignored the incredibly wide range of budgets in home studio construction. I almost posted this and had another thought. I logged onto Acoustech for a bit more information. Acoustech is based in Colorado. The closest to New Hampshire of the references on the website is in North Carolina. Jack indicates that he is in New Hampshire. This is not to say that does not a presence in NH, but there is no indication of that. If I set up a website for a company, I would definitely include references to all offices, and attempt to show the geographical extent in which the company has worked. The latter either explicitly, or at least through references on the site. The site does have a line "Many Additional references available on request" so that line of thought is not complete, but the absence of any projects in the north-east is curious, if they do have a presence there. All of the references were for houses of worship.Everything that I saw there indicates a first class company, but no indication of recording spaces, either specifically, implied, or hinted at by the manufacturers on the links page. Andre

Jack did get back to me on some of this - his idea of "new" books was the Davis one on "LEDE" rooms; then he went on to state that virtually all "PRO" CR's around the world are LEDE - he asked what I knew about diffusion, and recommended some books on calculus, fractal dynamics, chaos theory - BTW, apparently the Acoustech Jack is part of does reside in NH, I found the same stuff Andre did when I first went looking. Must be different companies with the same name. I just re-read his last email to me, and he basically re-worded my own statements on containment more or less. I'll try to get back to him when the bad weather hits, doesn't seem to be any "need for speed", but I'm curious... Steve

I hate to take this thread this way - but, I have never heard the guys name in 10 years and I am familiar with the higher-end names like John Storyk, Russ Berger - which is what he seems to bill himself as. Look at those folks websites and you know they know their business. I just can't find any rationale sense in any of what he said - AND REALLY all the theory, practice and experience from acoustician, to acoustics designer, to acoustic based architects its all the same and they will be the first to state the principles are the principles behind what they do. Maybe - diffusion not withstanding. But, diffusion for our rooms and for smaller rooms is less an appropriate topic anyhow, right? Who needs chaos theory for that. Better spending time reading up on chaos theory to answer the age old question of the meaning of your life vs. using that time to work on a budget home studio build project. I have never heard John Storyk guide someone to chaos theory (yes, heavy math here and there) but he might push you into building a closet or some other nifty trick to get your room working right. Anyhow - I prefer turning to the modern day folks as mentioned above for the larger acoustical discussions CAUSE look up what they have done RECENTLY and you see a whose who of work around the world. Here are some links I like to drool over... Russ Berger http://www.rbdg.com/projects/ http://www.rbdg.com/newsroom/ John Storyk http://www.wsdg.com/portfolio/portfol.php?SL=av http://www.wsdg.com/resources/resour.php?SL=te Storyk's list of books - great! broken down into levels http://www.wsdg.com/resources/resour.php?SL=re&BL=1 Storyk Studio on a Budget Articles http://www.wsdg.com/resources/resour.php?SL=ta&BL=1 Obviously, all those links are secondary to coming to this forum to get the real answers :-) Best Regards, David

Ass-kissing will get you a free beer; you just gotta buy it yerself... :wink:

his idea of "new" books was the Davis one on "LEDE" rooms

That says it all. Thanks Steve Andre

then he went on to state that virtually all "PRO" CR's around the world are LEDE

Pardon? - which ones? thanks for the links David - I really like Russ Berger's work - beautiful :):) cheers john

Interesting thing - one of the CR's he linked to that his company had just finished recently in Texas, was quite live and very "natural-woody" in the front - maybe it was a "DELE" room instead (always thought the FRONT half of LEDE was the dead half - silly me...