New Build?

I am part of a group about to build a studio in a L-shaped garage with 13 ft ceilings with about 1000 sq. ft....originally thought of using 200 sq. ft (most of the time) for storage of mobile van.....leaving 800 sq. ft for studio....250 to 300 s. ft for control room with side iso or vocal booths....leaving 500 to 550 sq. ft live room..... Original dimensions/layout: see first attached image First two possible layouts....see second and third images....both with sliding doors in middle of live room to facilitate easy loading/unloading....create possible additional space if mobile van is out its bay (use of portable Acoustic Panels to isolate as best can)....both essentially same Second possible layout is fourth image....without sliding doors....control room in other end of garage SO any thoughts or comments?

my thoughts - the CR and iso rooms will be too small. in this small of a space you're better off only doing rooms - live and CR. and after assessing the CR best ratio, then consider on the staircase side an isolation booth + an air lock to the stairs and (after moving) the exterior door. with the garage section - beef it up so it could be used but if there are noxious fumes from the vehicle or drippings on the floor, then it might not be usable. first though - plan your HVAC. and exhausting the garage separately to the outside. oh, and plan your HVAC first. then re-check it. because you're building hyper-insulated sealed rooms. and apparently, even musicians and producers need oxygen, pretty much continuously or they pass out and die. if its a commercial space, plan on implementing all the required disability act and safety requirements when you get your building permits.

Great work on the diagrams and planning, but +1 Glenn....

After much back and forth we have decided to fully investigate doing one room without CR....the console/desk will be inside the tracking room.... PROS: 1)huge fans of Sylvia Massy 2)easier build/less cost 3)positive vibe being in same room without glass or walls between 4)better communication 5)maximum use of space 6)right in middle and can hear what sounds like CONS: 1)less isolation? 2)one big room so need to adjust to 3)possible issues during mixes Like the Mavericks Studio in NYC: http://www.mavericksrecording.com/ But think we are looking at something like this: The studio is based on a one room concept made famous by people such as Daniel Lanois and Pierre Marchand. With the recording process happening in the same room as the performance, inspiration and communication are made easy.

Many sources require isolation due to level differences and susceptibility to being overwhelmed. A singer and a drum kit in one room may look social, but sonically it is the opposite. When time permits, e.g. an album, I tend to distribute all the unequals into different rooms. Often there is not a visual. BUT the speakers are off. Everybody is in the One Can world of headphones. Talkback mic is permanently on. I asked a Double Bass player friend if he misses the visual clues, the nods, the smell of the drummer. He replied, my eyes are closed most of the time when I am playing.

I'm reconsidering about not having control room....here is latest revisions to layout....have included an iso/vocal booth to one side of CR....another possible small booth on other side....but prefer the more open concept without small booth....

As far as the one room concept goes someone on another forum did a one room studio years ago and the drums being loud was always something that they didn't like so they later built a studio with a separate control room and liked that much better. It still felt intimate because most of the band could be in the control room while the drum set was in a tracking room with a window and door with window between the rooms so the players could still see the drummer etc. Looking at my L shaped room one room design, they would use the larger section for the control room with space for players and put the drum set in the section where I have the piano in my drawing of one room with a wall between the two spaces. They felt it's nice for engineering to be away from the loud drums in a room. If the bass player preferred to be in the same room as the drummer you could do that. With an L shaped room people won't be able to see each other very well so perhaps one could keep the players where they could see the drummer through a window and set the console and gear back where I have the drums in my drawing. You could even do a small guitar amp room to keep amps out of the control room too. Just some different thoughts....worth considering....and I have revised layout several times and still tweaking....

Latest revision

one challenge is all access to the CR is via live rooms. this could be disruptive to activities in either room. and all access to the studio appears to be only from outside.

I have been working to accommodate a studio build in an L shaped garage....with 1000 sq, ft. of total area....13 ft 6 in ceilings....concrete block walls....concrete pad for floor.... My problem is that I have been struggling to put in a reasonable sized studio....maximizing space we have....but being L shaped in interesting to say the least.... This will be commercial boutique type of studio space....meant to be welcoming....great creative vibe....a place folks will want to come and record music....not sterile like some studios....but with a cool vibe We have a pretty good list of equipment....including some vintage gear (mics, tape machines, Neve BCM 10 sidecar, and incredible outboard gear)....we have decided on the Fix console because of its innovative and flexible adaptability....originally we were going with the 24 channel but may now be adding another 16 or another 24 channel for a second studio space.... I do feel the need for good sightlines from the control room....so I went back to Phillip Newell's book on studio design....which I had read over and over, digesting all I could, before doing any possible studio layouts....I have included a few passages from his book that states the importance of visibility in layout of studio especially in regard to the CR.... Here is new layout:

agreed - visual communications is important, however, many designs do not simply scale to fit into a given space - in 18 years of designing, i seldom have portions of a studio design be truly reusable, and certainly, not one reuse of a full design. so - without suggesting you go back to square one - you need to think though - start with big boxes - what functionality you want - 1 CR + multiple live rooms with booths in each? 2 CR - one main + main live room and booths, and one post prod with a vocal booth? 2 CR - one main + live room, second one post-prod size + vocal booth? lounge? bathroom? independent sections? access? security? fire safety? ease of load-in/out, etc. commercial requiring accessibility construction? off the top - based on your latest image - maybe two CR - one main, one post prod. post prod (room B) would have vocal booth. option for video feeds into main live room. main CR + main live room - no booths. video feeds into B vocal booth. minimize actual window and use video feeds to create communication channels. in fact two-way video communications is often better because no one can hear your though the glass anyways :-) minimize lounge space - its not a night club. contemplate where someone can access a bathroom. plan on investing at least $100K in the construction if using a contractor and commercial doors and windows.

Further revisions Have increased size of Room A CR....kept Room B same size....have increased easier access by using glass sliding door system....in second revision I have simplified Live Room A....in both there is increased space in Live Room A.... There is no access from A to B on purpose....better sound isolation for both rooms....keeping as two separate spaces I have a studio designer/architect working with us to draw up detailed plans etc....we will building ourselves with help from several friends....licensed carpenter, experienced house framer, cabinet maker, wood worker among others....plus have family connections to contractor....electrician....and plumber....so hope to keep costs down as much as possible

Also added second washroom plus sink...

i think the booths would be way too small. this seems like a large space, but then subtract about 2' per set of walls and its much smaller. 2x 5/8" + 3 1/2" + 1" (air gap) + 3 1/2" + 2x 5/8" not including plywood (recommended) and interior treatments (unless inside out walls).

gullfo wrote:

i think the booths would be way too small. this seems like a large space, but then subtract about 2' per set of walls and its much smaller. 2x 5/8" + 3 1/2" + 1" (air gap) + 3 1/2" + 2x 5/8" not including plywood (recommended) and interior treatments (unless inside out walls).

Thanks to your great drawing I was able to revise our studio layout....with only one control room....larger than previously....still two live rooms....with a line of sight to both....better in Room A than in Room B....but still better than before....with your cleaner layout of actual size of space we are working with, I was able to figure out how much of space would be lost in the build....we are building a box in a box (or boxes in boxes....and these look like the easiest versions to build and more importantly to work in....more room in CR which could be use for recording vocals or even guitar in....and with a 24 ch. Fix console (or maybe 32) we should be ready to make some magic....make some great music....let me know what you think and thank you for your help:

Still playing around after getting some great advice: "Don’t waste the money on those round things. Look at pix of the favorite places to make records, you NEVER see panels on the walls or those round things. Make a 5 sided or non parallel control room, if it’s wide, you’ll have room for bass, keys, etc. in the CR." Cleaned up and in scale (well sort of lol):

i would put the mechanical room near the bathrooms rather than in the live room. also, those live room booths will be way too small to be useful. the angled down slider doors will likely not work correctly. passageways should be 44" wide minimum. and generally, the acoustic treatments in pro studios tend to be fully integrated so you don't see them - helps hide their complexities and also makes for better aesthetics. that said, there are plenty of pro studios with discrete treatments placed around the room, depends on budget and design goals. an improperly designed integrated set of treatments can be hard to tweak later as the user/owner becomes more familiar with the characteristics of the space and finds variations in the frequency and/or timing responses that are subtle now require some adjustment to accommodate the finesse of the listener.

Just tweaked it a bit....moved Mechanical to make more room in Room B Will be able to use the Passageway as place to record as well....quoting a friend (with decades in the audio field): "Make the passage way angled like that and tile is with an angled ceiling. By opening the door into the studio you can regulate it’s natural reverb to drums and guitars. No need for speakers…. Cherokee Studios in LA had that and it was legendary. Opening the door from 2” to full was awesome." I'm not worried about the angled double glass doors either....they will allow better viewing especially into Room B....and their pros outweigh any cons....we will make them work no matter what.... There is plenty of enough room in booths to be useful....small but like iso booths....vocal booth is also more than adequate.... Additional storage under stairs....and upstairs as well....will be able to record bass, guitar, keyboards & vocals in control room as well

OK I have cleaned up the layout a bit more....put things in scale more....removed some booths that were just too small to be effective....generally just cleaned up layout....

Cleaned up layout bit more....lost vocal booth as can record vocals etc in CR.... Mechanical and/or Amp Room under stairs with access from Passage way too.

I listened to some advice from other forums about such things as the the length of control room being at the width not depth....and issues that can cause....and having one large room instead of two smaller ones....so tweaked things a bit more Actually I am starting right back at the CR....here are some thoughts including one from last diagrams:

Great jamming you two.... A thought......As a free lance Engineer I have worked in many studios. Quite often the combination of glass and lighting makes visual comms difficult to impossible. Also, such windows are expensive and difficult engineering. I suggest that cameras and big TV screens would perform better for much lower cost. Such a system could also display lyrics, music notation, a roaring fire, a beach.....

Control room:

Cleaning up layout....added double doors instead of double sliding doors as entry doors to studio space....double/double doors at front entrance to studio for easier load in and out...

So I have revised one more time....trying to keep best possible visibility can from control room (though will be using cameras where need)....plus easiest possible load in/out....maximum use of space....while getting best possible acoustic rooms that can....having listened to many on various forums....plus my own reading....and experience in studio....I think I have come up with suitable compromise....by moving control room to back wall....there is a partial wrap around double glass window that is positioned to look onto largest area of live room....a iso/vocal booth as well as drum/guitar room is included....plus providing access to storage/amp room/mechanical room (power supply) under stairway....as well as easy access to control room from both sides of....while maintaining a good flow to space as well as creating a cool vibe....various treatments on walls and ceilings as well as raised floor should help: