Is it even possible?

Is it worth considering building a control room and/or mastering suite in a room with a 7 foot floor to ceiling height?....the other length by width dimensions are 16.5' X 12.0'.

Sure why not.

.....well...I'm not sure why not....I guess most of the rooms I've seen have higher ceilings and figured there must be a reason for it...I believe I need to treat my current room with some bass traps but really wondered if it's worth the effort and expense because of the low ceiling height...I did read somewhere that a higher ceiling is preferred for tracking room(s) and I just assumed that applied to control rooms and/or mastering suites also. The same article suggested creating a "false" ceiling using acoustic ceiling tiles to achieve the effect of a higher ceiling (the theory being that less high frequency content would be reflected off the ceiling)....I did build such a structure and it did make a difference while recording live drums. Basically I'm just trying to evaluate whether constructing a studio in a basement has any real hope of acheiving professional quality recordings.

Well there is the kicker. A real pro can make magic in a dungeon. So the choice is yours. Key word CHOICE. I converted a room with an 8' ceiling to be my control room and then for the live room ended up dropping the ceiling to a height of 87" and i get a GREAT sound out of both. :) Hope that helps you out BTW 87" = 7'3"

Raw, > I believe I need to treat my current room with some bass traps but really wondered if it's worth the effort and expense because of the low ceiling height < In fact, the less optimum the room dimensions, the more you'll benefit from bass traps. Even the best designed room in the world needs some amount of bass trapping, and lesser rooms need it even more. > I'm just trying to evaluate whether constructing a studio in a basement has any real hope of acheiving professional quality recordings. < If you get EQ magazine, the current issue (September) shows the design for a complete studio meant to go in a basement or garage. This design assumes a ceiling eight feet high, but it can be scaled to give excellent results with lower ceilings. --Ethan

thanks Giles & Ethan for your replies... Giles:...if I understand your comment correctly then a decent acoustical environment is not necessary for a professional sound engineer to produce professional results.....then why do people go through the expense and effort to build world class studios for musicians and sound engineers to work in? Ethan:...thanks for the tip on the Sep. issue of EQ...I will check that out. I've visited your site in the past and found it quite helpful. That's about the time I started seriously thinking about building the bass traps. ...and then I noticed John Sayers page about combined diffusor/bass traps....that really sounded like a good way to go.....anyway, the more I've read about designing and building a "good room" it became apparent that to convert my basement environs into such a room using the techniques found on your website and here would take quite a lot of $$ and would eat up what preciuos little space I have, so naturally I started to wonder if it would be worth the expense (see Giles reply above... :wink: )....my main concern at the moment is the ability to hear and judge frequencies below say 500hz...currently I burn mixes and then play back on different sources to check the low end.....a time consuming process (although I've "learned" my monitors better as a result...).....seems more efficient to me to get it "right" the first time :lol: ...I do have clients that have been happy enough with my work to return so my present situation is not "unworkable"....just trying to get a handle on where and how to improve...

RT, > currently I burn mixes and then play back on different sources to check the low end < Your room is big enough to get good results. But you really do need bass traps if you ever hope to hear what you're doing while mixing. --Ethan

thanks Ethan....that's encouraging!...is there a way to calculate which frequencies will be absorbed by a given thickness of wood and insulation used in a trap?....regarding Sayer's combination trap/diffusor design: if a bass trap is angled or rounded does it affect it's ability to trap bass frequencies?

Raw, > is there a way to calculate which frequencies will be absorbed by a given thickness of wood and insulation used in a trap? < Yes. Oh, you want the formula? I know it's in Everest's book, or you could just follow the plans on my site and know the traps will work: www.ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html While you're at my site you can follow the link to my main Articles page and see other articles about this stuff. Likewise, there are even more such articles on my company's site, linked under my name below. > regarding Sayer's combination trap/diffusor design < I'll let John comment on that. --Ethan

...thanks Ethan for keeping up with my questions!...I will study your site's information some more as I'm still confused on what would be best to do about low frequency absorbtion in my situation...I'm actually in a space that has only 3 actual walls (similar to the picture of your space where you have the panel traps mounted everywhere but my equipment is oriented differently)...one of my side walls would be the open space where I have a free standing movable wall (made of high frequency absorbtive material) taking up approximately half the length of the "room". I know that sounds confusing so I hope to post a drawing of my situation and maybe you could comment on where and how to place corner and/or panel traps effectively to tame the lows....I'm considering John's corner resonator units with your panel traps on the rear wall...thanks again for the reply!

rawtunes wrote:

thanks Giles & Ethan for your replies... Giles:...if I understand your comment correctly then a decent acoustical environment is not necessary for a professional sound engineer to produce professional results.....then why do people go through the expense and effort to build world class studios for musicians and sound engineers to work in?

that would be incorrect. A Perfect environment is not needed for a good engineer to get good results would be a btter statement. You can end up with a Decent environment based on your dimensions. heck i used to use my Recording truck to mix in before I built my Studio and got great results. And as Ethan said Bass Trapping will be the MAJOR thing for your size room :)

Your combination of room dimensions isn't all that bad - it would have a slight "hole" in response at around 40 hZ, but otherwise no worse for modal distribution than a lot of rooms. Being a relatively small rooms it will still need bass traps for sure; also the usual first reflection points absorbed, preferably with either rigid fiberglass or rockwool... Steve

Hi giles.....thanks for your clarification on that!....I had a feeling I misunderstood what you said :lol: knightfly:...glad to get your take on this also!....glad to hear the dimensions are not all that bad....that's encouraging! I am grateful for everyone's help here....I'm gonna put up that drawing I spoke of and hopefully you all could give me some input on where to place the bass traps...will it do any good to place a trap in the "corners" where there is no adjoining wall?....and speaking of the traps themselves: if I follow Ethan's DIY panel trap plans and want to build them to "stand alone" (...or "hang alone") rather than built attached to the wall, what thickness of plywood would I use on the back of the trap so it would still be effective at the rated frequencies?

I Posted for everyone's benefit

...thanks giles! :D

RT, > what thickness of plywood would I use on the back of the trap so it would still be effective at the rated frequencies? < The thicker and more massive, the better. I'd use at least 3/4 inch thick plywood, and I'd also put cross braces every two feet (they can go on the inside) to further prevent the back from flexing. --Ethan

.....that's good news!....managed to pick up that copy of EQ and seeing as you're a regular contributor I'll be getting a subscription :) ....my space is never going to be perfect but after reading a lot more on the subject I believe I can improve it quite a bit....even without splaying walls and floating floors, etc....anyway, I'm gonna do some testing before I make any material purchases....one more question: do you (or does anyone)know if that Sonar 3 download from your site will work in Sonar 1.3?...if not, I do have the Virtual Minirator so maybe I can make do with that....

R, No, the Sonar 3 project works in Sonar 3 only, and I assume Sonar 4 when it comes out next month. --Ethan

Here's another pretty useful test package (free) http://www.moonaudio.com/softwar5.htm at least til you upgrade Sonar 8) Steve

Ethan:...yep...I tried it before your reply and it definitely didn't work in 1.3 :lol: knightfly:....thanks for the link Steve!...I'll be looking into that... I was wondering...since I'm in a basement....should I be calculating a room mode based on the dimensions of the foundation walls as far as the bass frequencies are concerned?

For modal purposes, you measure to the barrier for the low frequency sound - if all you have in front of the concrete is some type of light weight paneling, then the measurement would be to the concrete - for heavier walls, they would be the boundary... Steve

knightfly:...I tried that link.....for some reason I can't get the spectrum analyzer to run on my set up and I'm leery of installing it on my computer with Sonar....for some unknown reason the ModeCalc on Ethan's site won't work on my internet computer either....any chance someone could get the room mode for 26 X 26 X 7 and post the result back here?...I did some testing and would like to compare figures....thanks for any help! Ethan:....just wanted to say I enjoyed the article in EQ...thanks to you and Wes Lachot for your efforts!

RT, > the ModeCalc on Ethan's site won't work on my internet computer < It's a very simple DOS program, and you can just run it from my site. When you click the link, select Open rather than Save. > any chance someone could get the room mode for 26 X 26 X 7 < I don't have to run that to know there's a problem with the square shape. Unless you're willing and able to change the dimensions by building a wall, knowing the modes is not that useful. I'm attaching a screen capture from ModeCalc so you can see for yourself. > just wanted to say I enjoyed the article in EQ...thanks to you and Wes Lachot for your efforts! < Thanks! --Ethan

Ethan:...regarding running the Mode Calc from your site...I get a dialog which opens and says "system file not suitable for running MS-DOS and Microsoft Windows applications"... :? ....so thanks for posting the results for me! I ran some "tests" (probably not very scientific ones at that...utilizing the Virtual Minirator and a pair of SM57's instead of my ears...) at my mix position and found deep nulls at 65hz, 125hz, 200hz, 800hz, 1.6Khz, 2.0Khz, 2.5Khz, 3.15Khz, 6.3Khz....now I'm totally confused...so.....given the bad room mode dimensions of my entire basement would I get any benefit from hanging 4" 703 in the corners?.....I am considering coming up with a design to completely remodel the basement into a control room and two tracking rooms but this would be a tremendous and expensive undertaking that is frought with problems to be overcome to make it work...would merely wrapping some 703 and placing it strategically in corners be of benefit until I research a more permanent solution? (...a simple drawing of my current set-up is on page 1 of this thread)

Raw, > running the Mode Calc from your site...I get a dialog < It has to be on your end. Are you running an antivirus program? > utilizing the Virtual Minirator and a pair of SM57's instead of my ears...) at my mix position and found deep nulls at 65hz, 125hz, 200hz, 800hz, 1.6Khz, 2.0Khz, 2.5Khz, 3.15Khz, 6.3Khz < You have to take that all with a huge grain of salt. Acoustic interference is the root cause, and a cheap cardioid microphone doesn't help matters. Sine waves are useful mainly at low frequencies, but pink noise makes more sense at the higher range. Without a better way to measure, I'd basically ignore all those readings and just accept that your room has problems. :( > given the bad room mode dimensions of my entire basement would I get any benefit from hanging 4" 703 in the corners? < Yes! The worse the room, the more it needs bass trapping. Not the other way around. --Ethan