Acoustic treatment for live room (Code-name: Beryl)

Hi all, thanks for taking the time to read. I prematurely posted about this months ago, but did not give the required info, so sorry about that. I have a rehearsal space that I would like to get advice on acoustic treatment, that I have named Beryl. Images below. SIZE 4,810mm (Width) x 5,900mm (Length) x 2380mm (Height) MATERIALS Walls and ceiling: 19mm gyprock/plasterboard (drywall), painted Floor: 19mm chipboard with 11mm plywood glued and screwed over on top, stained and sealed with floor varnish GOALS Primary goal: Rehearsal/live room for drums, bass and guitar rock band. Drummer hits like Grohl and guitar and bass keep up with him - we struggle to stay below 120dB. We haven't played in Beryl (the new room) yet. I'd like for the room to be a lot quieter, less echo and manageable across the frequency range but I DON'T want to suck the life out of it if possible. I'd like for it to be fun to play in and still a little lively. Secondary goal: Record live drums for demos. Nothing fancy, just a manageable sound. Tertiary goal: I'd like to setup an extremely mediocre mixing station. I have a couple of Tannoy Reveal 502 nearfield monitors and will probably get an equally unimpressive sub. Again, this is purely for demos and not pro recordings. BUDGET/PLAN I plan to build all the acoustic treatment myself. I have the correct density batts for absorption, which are W:430mm H:1160mm L:90mm (hence the panel size in the drawings). And I have the ability to make either skyscraper or horizontal deflection..deflectors I have a budget around $500AUD QUESTIONS Ceiling treatment: My initial post got a reply saying that I need to extensively treat the ceiling mostly with absorption. Will the panels I have in my images suffice? Do I need diffusers as well? Do I need more? Different positions? Bass traps: In my research on this forum, bass traps are a must. Is that correct? If so (in the corners) superchunks? or open-backed? I have limited space in one corner by the door, but the rest I can make any size needed. (See images) Are the other bass traps I've put up (above the wall-hung absorbers) necessary? In the right position? Wall absorption: I took a punt on position in my images based on initial reflection points for both the drummer and mixing position. Do I need more? Position? etc? Deflectors: Again, I took a punt based on breaking up initial reflections and reflections along the length the length of the room. Do I need more (possibly on ceiling or long walls)? Position? etc? Any help would be amazing, so thanks for taking the time

Will the panels I have in my images suffice?

Possibly, yes. You could cheaply build/install some polys on your ceiling to keep it lively without flutter echo and everything bad that comes with that.

Do I need diffusers as well?

Not necessarily. And with the size of your room, where you are mixing and where your drums are, you should stay away from numeric based diffusion. Behind your speakers, you should have absorption, not diffusion.

In my research on this forum, bass traps are a must. Is that correct?

Yes.

If so (in the corners) superchunks?

Yes.

Are the other bass traps I've put up (above the wall-hung absorbers) necessary? In the right position?

Fit as many as you can.

I took a punt on position in my images based on initial reflection points for both the drummer and mixing position. Do I need more? Position? etc?

If you're on a budget and you can only have x number of panels, I would rotate your mixing position side wall panels 90 degrees. Put them at ear height. This will allow you to have some movement towards/away from your speakers and still have those first reflections under control.

Deflectors: Again, I took a punt based on breaking up initial reflections and reflections along the length the length of the room. Do I need more (possibly on ceiling or long walls)? Position? etc?

And, in your room, you can use diffusion, but use Polys. Greg

Thanks Greg! Really appreciated. As for the poly's, a couple of questions: Is this just for the ceiling? Or do I need poly's on the walls too? For the ceiling, should I remove the absorption panels above the kit and desk? Or leave them and then add the poly's around them? I'll have a look around the forums for more on poly construction and placement, but do you have any links to the "inexpensive" option? Again, thanks for the advice, Below is the shell of Beryl (the before photo of what is to come!)

OK, I've done some more research and have come up with this...(see images) Would love some feedback on if this amount of poly's is sufficient or if I can use them more efficiently. I calculate I can make each one for around $30-40AUD a piece which is half my budget for the 8 in the images... I've also taken your advice Greg and rotated the panels by the desk and replaced the diffusers behind my speakers with absorption. I think I'm quite close to start building...just need a pro to look over it so I'm not doing anything too stupid :mrgreen:

Just a little bump :o

Could you please remove the components, drums, console etc and post the .skp file? Don't forget to goto Window/Model Info and select Statistics and click on Purge Unused. That will clear of file of any components that are in memory but aren't being used. Also save the file as a 2017 skp file in the save as options so people with older versions of Sketchup can open it. cheers john

Thanks John Attached is the file. I hope I have followed your instructions ok - some of the features on the free version are a little different. This is as low in file size as I could get. Cheers, Mike EDIT: New file attached, now with accurate sized absorbers for the batts I have.

Are you able to share how you drew those polys in SketchUp? I still can't figure out how to draw those shapes that nicely! Thank you! Greg

Hi Greg, I actually found them in the SketchUp component library and scaled them to suit my measurements (plus took out the backboard if I recall) Feel free to download my file and use them :D While I'm here, any further advice on positioning of the absorbers and polys. I'm getting some mean flutter echo at the moment. My plan of attack is to install the absorbers and the furniture/musical gear then see where the problem areas are/see if it deadens the sound too much and work out where to go from there. As I don't have the knowledge to see from the SketchUp files what might be problematic with my current design. Also would I be better to keep one of the long walls flat and treat the other the side? Or treat the both equally/non-equally. Again, any help would be great

Are you getting flutter echo at your mix position or just in random spots in the room? Greg

Mike, may I offer a completely different approach. If you want to play loud instruments in a room like yours adding a few diffusers and absorbent panels just isn't enough. I'd build something like this. cheers john

Coool! Thanks John! I think I get what is going on here. I'll redraw my original sketch as I've already put in superchunks and have built absorption panels since I first posted. But I can reconfigure what I already have to mimic what you've done with the ceiling treatment, short wall diffuser/absorption and the absorption on one long wall and angled diffuser/absorption on the other..but it won't be floor to ceiling. WIll that be terrible? Or ok? For full disclosure: I'm trying to do a lot with this space and it's not meant to be "pro-standard". Ideally I want a cool space to create music with drums and guitars, record a demo that doesn't absolutely suck, and store my amp, guitar, drum collection. I'll also have my Protools rig/computer setup at the other end to the drums. but this is secondary to the other stuff. Just one question: If I have a mixing spot at the opposite end to the large angled diffuser, a) will I need absorption behind the speakers, and b) will my mix position feel a little lop-sided as one long wall will have the smaller angled diffusers/absorbers and the other will have only absorption? I don't feel like it will matter too much as I'll never be mixing anything that requires a perfect mix, but just so that I'm aware. Thanks for your time on this, really helps someone like me with limited budget to get as much bang for buck as possible! Cheers M

With the parts I already have built (see photos), this is what I can build taking your (John's) sketch as inspiration. (see Sketch file) Considering me jumping the gun and building all this, would this be the best approach for a decent sounding live room? Also if I were to put a crusty 3 seater couch in there, were would be a good spot to put it? in the middle of the room, along a particular wall? Again thanks

something like this. cheers john

Thanks John, Which of these configurations would be best for for the primary purpose for this room – a live room NOT for mixing? With the Sketch file that has the mixing desk in it, would it work to have the drum kit at the opposite end? Or am I better going for your original design? Thanks, Mike

Also, I noted that the large slotted diffuser does not have any insulation behind it for absorption. Is this correct?

In my designs every stud has insulation between it and the next one. The room will work for mixing AND for drum kits etc. It's the room that works, not it's layout. cheers john

Thanks heaps John. I'll get building!

Finished! Thankyou for everyones help on this forum. Special thanks to John Sayers for the design. The room sounds great! Had to put up some cheap sound absorption foam panels on the ceiling to stop some flutter echo, but otherwise I'm stoked at how awesome it sounds in here, both as a live room for drums and guitars and as a listening room. For those that are interested I managed to do all of this for about $3,500 (Thats for materials, paint, insulation batts etc. I built it all myself..including the desk so saved a butt load on that!) Again thanks for the great advice, couldn't be happier!....Except maybe some upgraded speakers :)