Tiny Basement Mixing Room Woes

Ok! so I'm finally uploading pics of my progress so far... :roll: I know, it's taking me way longer to do any of this -- I have such a tiny room you'd think my build would have been completed ages ago :oops: :cry: :P But having two toddlers and a crazy workload right now seems to somehow impede my studio building time... LOL :blah: :blah: :blah: As I have uploaded my sketchup pics already, I'll start in with the construction pics and commentary. Please feel free to chime in or ask questions! This is now my 6th small studio build and probably my last for awhile (just bought here in GP) so I am really excited to share this one with everyone! Here is the back wall / hanger bass trap frame -- First boards up! WooHoo! Front View where you can see the slight angle on the left side of the frame to create a larger entryway into the laundry room (wife compromise to ensure the washer / dryer could be removed if required :cop: ) Added the studio door frame which follows that angle to widen the laundry room entryway - This angle will be complemented on the back hanger wall affording some extra room to maximize hanger size Here is the angle of that door frame close up Continuing with the Right side exterior wall Here you can see my prebuilt soffits already in place in the background -- oooo foreshadowing!! :lol: First piece of MDF up for the right exterior wall -- Progress! So exciting! LOL This shows how small my mixing room is in relation to the rest of the basement...

Here are my prebuilt soffits (I built these 2 studio builds ago and have moved them in quadrants two times already -- each quadrant weighs approximately 250 lbs!! These soffits have MASS!!! look back in the thread to see how they were initially built Wall stuffing and MDF on outside wall Outside wall done with paint and guitars hung! :yahoo: :!: :!: Now to framing and stuffing the Inside walls and Hanger area... I am using this sweet and super cheap nylon landscape mesh from Home Depot to hold all my roxul in place -- This will allow a smooth application of fabric over the studs and ensure the Hanger cavity walls and ceiling absorption stays where it should! -- Painstaking work getting this stuff pulled tight and stapled but it will last without stretching so yay!! Here is that complementary angle for the back wall and hanger cavity

Here's a closeup of the mesh So I still have to finish the roof and take measurements so that's all for the framing and stuffing for now.... On to the REAL exciting piece of my build so far... The custom Desk!! I am just floored with how well this came out!! :yahoo: :lol: :D as I could not have imagined it coming together as perfectly as it did -- Buckle up, this one's gonna be a fun ride!!! Here is the initial sketchup designs complete with custom rack insets and scorpion tail monitor setup!! This was a concept that I was hoping I could pull off... I ordered custom 1.25" (32mm) Hardboard or HDF (I didn't realize there was such a thing as Heavy Density Fiberboard but it was all Windsor Plywood had in stock in Edmonton) and this stuff is HEAVY which is amazing for a studio desk :mrgreen: once it arrived I had them make the main cuts for all the leg holes and desk top holes... I then proceeded to paint and install the rack houses including rack ears and hardware holes to mount the floating keyboard/mouse and the monitor stands I bought a jig off amazon for installing furniture cam head connectors and dowels - I highly recommend this method if you want your desk to potentially be disassembled. Started staining the Components Black which takes forever with MDF using a polyurethane stain is the way to go but it has to be oil based or your MDF will swell! Once all pieces were stained with 4 coats I finally got to start assembling the desk! This had to be done in the studio as space being so tight, the assembled desk would never fit through the door! Super Important to ensure your holes are drilled precisely with this Cam hardware otherwise the legs won't go on tightly! This took some time... Alright! Got the legs on and the desk flipped up... Time to start the next phase!

First time working with E-Z Lock Threaded inserts for particle board... I wanted a way to securely mount the keyboard tray hardware and Monitor stand mounts to the desk... Using these inserts your fasteners thread through the material which provides a superior non-strippable securing method. I highly recommend! Especially for MDF which is prone to blow outs and stripped holes... Well worth the hassle and extra work. I used Gorilla glue when threading the inserts and once cured I had no slippage or failed threads whatsoever! Next task was to build the rack houses and start covering the desk with my absorptive/diffusing secret weapon... Rubber backed, outdoor carpet! This stuff is a 1/4 " thick and covered in repeating textured valleys and rivers... It wasn't cheap but I this gave me the look, and acoustic performance I was seeking! My original plan was to use acoustic iso mat which I bought off Amazon, as soon as I opened it up I realized it wouldn't work at all for this purpose. As it was super soft and rubbery which wouldn't hold up to a desk surface at all... However, it will be amazing for my HVAC Silencers!! So, still a win!! :lol: The design of the Rack Houses has them angled back towards the soffits to break up the typical flat "desk" surface and help to redirect any potential reflections away from the listening position. This worked exceptionally well! Here is a couple shots with gear.... Had to start racking that up as soon as possible !! Major excitement now! :yahoo: :shot: :D Alright!! Now we are cooking with gas... this next pic is the finished desk with modified LCD Monitor stand/arm mount installed. This piece was originally a standard horizontal arm mount that I hacked apart and mounted to a new plate, bolted to a pair of reinforced L brackets... This was the main challenge to the Scorpion Tail Screen System (patent pending lol :lol: ) And here is the finished product with custom monitor stand Scorpion Tail Style!! Let me tell you the ergonmics on this is incredible!

Here are some good shots of the angles I have all the monitors at... This was again for ergonomics and unwanted primary reflections off the screens. This stand is ROCK solid... and the monitors work SO well in this configuration! I was worried being off axis somewhat on the viewing angles would screw up my plan but the end result is nothing short of spectacular! Tons of real estate without the nasty reflections and straining your neck! Plus the extremely limited space I have necessitated some REAL creative problem solving and this custom desk design truly hit home on all fronts. Let me know if anyone has thoughts or questions!! And here we have the desk in place!! You are all caught up on the build so far... I'm just working on finishing the ceiling stuffing and then starting on my bass hangers. I will take measurements of the room again once the ceiling is done for my base treatment curve and then will start on the focused low frequency attenuation treatment (bass hangers, superchunks etc..) Thanks for tuning in folks! I can't wait to start adding more to the thread here on the finishing treatment process! :yahoo: :) :D :lol: 8) And just for a hint of what's to come... here are some rough 'Vibe" pics! Blue LED's in the Furmans really set the tone here too!!

So onto some construction questions... I went back to my hanger design and changed the orientation to increase total surface area... they are still at 40 degrees just turned the opposite way. Anyone see an issue with the hangar orientation? Regarding the treatment for the front of the Hanger Cavity, my initial plan was to fill the front face completely with Roxul (covered in fabric) but reading through other peoples builds and seeing different techniques I'm curious if there is any acoustical advantage to leaving some space at the top or bottom? As for the solid core Door... My initial plan was to install an acoustic panel of 3" thick Roxul in a frame covering all exposed solid wood... to try and mimic the treatment of the Hanger Cavity and remove that hard reflection. But now I'm thinking I should actually double that up and go 6" of Roxul to ensure no waveforms are bounced back into the room... Should I completely cover the front of the Hanger Cavity with Roxul or leave a gap at the top and/or bottom? Should I mirror the treatment on the door to be identical to the complementary angle on the right side of the Hangar Cavity? Should I use 6" of Roxul? Or would 3" be sufficient absorption on this solid surface to minimize and absorb most of the reflected sound Thanks for any comments or advice! Everyone's time and input is greatly appreciated!! Lee

Now that I'm almost in Hanger construction mode, I'm wondering if it would be beneficial to remove the superchunks from under my speaker soffits and put Bass Hangers there instead? It's not a huge space, but I will definitely have some left over Homasote with no where for it to go... Unless maybe I put it on the roof above the cloud instead of just cloth up there? Should I replace these superchunks with Bass Hangers? Would the difference be enough to justify the hassle it will be to do? Current Superchunks in existing soffits (note this pic is really old and not from my new build, however the soffits haven't changed) Thanks Gang! :wink: Lee

Hey Studio Land!! Here's my latest REW files with the Walls and Hanger Cavity fully stuffed and Ceiling 60% stuffed (can't finish the ceiling stuffing until I build the supply air hvac silencer...) Have a look! It made a significant improvement (as to be expected) compared to the empty room measurements. Walls and Ceiling Stuffed: https://drive.google.com/file/d/18VIHTOUgmi9mEw7N-ieg9dZ2FLkdTAnD/view?usp=sharing Empty Room: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wr8FQ0EU2zO2rDTShdc-vlsh3ELWnJi-/view?usp=sharing 8) Happy Weekend! Lee

That desk looks unreal! I think the superchunks under your speakers will be fine. As for the hangers, I would probably consider facing them with some pyramid shaped units like John's designed for this ceiling. which would help your time domain behave as intended. Greg

You're right. The "pyramid absorber/diffuser" from John's page is exactly what I was describing. I've never built one before so I'm not sure how you'd go about building it short of cutting thin plywood and then face it with a veneer. The low frequencies will blow right through them and be tamed by the hangers in behind. As for your plastic film covering your insulation, I'm on the fence about it personally. John recommends it but I'm concerned about it causing high frequency reflections. I should mention that I think film like that should be used to treat a room as long as it's not at first reflection points or at ear height. However, John is beyond pro and his rooms are amazing so you should just follow your gut and do what you think is best. Personally, I've worked in rooms where there is exposed insulation for many years and I'm okay sleeping at night. I might regret it when I get lung cancer or something in the future... only time will tell. Greg

I dont want to take this too far offtopic but;

Gregwor wrote:

As for your plastic film covering your insulation Greg

What about in Countries where we have to use vapor barrier? placing insulation between layers of plastic is not usually recommended. should the "real" vapor barrier be removed or does this platic film have gaps in some places so it breaths and this isnt really an issue?

You're right. The "pyramid absorber/diffuser" from John's page is exactly what I was describing. I've never built one before so I'm not sure how you'd go about building it short of cutting thin plywood and then face it with a veneer. The low frequencies will blow right through them and be tamed by the hangers in behind.

Sweet! Thanks so much Greg! I’ve been doing a ton of research on the pyramid diffuser / absorber and it seems the thickness and density (mass) of the pyramid faces lowers the absorber’s frequency but I guess in this case I shouldn’t be too concerned about that?? Given the fact that the hanger cavity itself will be doing all the trapping as you surmise... I’m going to draw up a design and post it here for discussion! :idea:

Personally, I've worked in rooms where there is exposed insulation for many years and I'm okay sleeping at night.

Yes, I’m going to wait before worrying about restoring any high frequencies until all the bottom end is controlled and in line - I agree I’ve never been concerned about exposed mineral wool either, just the room being too dead! I’ll let room measurements speak to that I guess. On another note... I’ve got my first hanger built and installed!! Woohoo! I’m stoked on my hanger design it is working perfectly!! Check it out! :yahoo: Now only 9 more to build!! :horse: :wink: :lol: :P :cry: :roll: First pic is the spacing and sizing from sketchup to make the whole thing fit and nail the 40 degree angles... HaHaHa I love it when a plan comes together!! Can't believe I'm finally making treatment progress.. So much effort -- It's super exciting now !! :D Thanks again for all the input and help, especially you Gregwor! Lee

Alright! Here's some hanger update pics... It is taking way longer than planned but they are making a profound audible difference in the room already and I'm only 4 hangers in! Here is the jig I made to help bisect the 3" roxul -- It works really well! :idea: :o 8) Here is Hanger # 2 and # 3 Hanger # 4 which is probably the largest I'm going to be able to fit at 32" wide Using aircraft cable tensioned between two eye hooks has worked out great for the hanging system, the bass hangers themselves are very easy to swing (good fulcrum) so hopefully that will translate into maximum efficiency of absorbtion! Can't wait to finish off the other 6 pieces!! :roll: Lee

So I got my pyramid diffuser/reflector/absorber sketched... Not a lot of specific information available regarding how to design or build these things so I'm relying on input from you guys to help me through this!! Here is the front side of the hanger cavity and the door covered with the maximum number of pyramids I can fit in a simple reversing pattern... Any suggestions on orientation are welcome as I just arranged them to fit the space and in reference to other manufacturer's recommendations. Here is a shot looking at the back of the diffuser through the hanger cavity for reference. The dimensions of the pyramid were determined by using "golden ratio triangles" for the sides as all of my research pointed towards this being the most effective design theory for this type of geometric diffuser although to be clear by definition this shape really only offers wave reflection as opposed to true specular diffusion... :cry: :| Here's a shot from the top where you can see the Pyramid shapes a little better... I am wondering what the most effective approach is going to be in terms of "feeding" the low frequencies into the bass hanger cavity... From my research, filling the pyramids with insulation will dampen them and offer not only reflection of the high frequencies randomly back into the room but also add certain amount of wide Q low frequency absorption... I am planning on stuffing each pyramid with roxul like this: With my thoughts being that as the low frequency waveform penetrates the Pyramid and hits an initial mass of insulation some energy will be dissipated right away leaving less low frequencies for the hangers to absorb... Can someone please chime in and validate or dispute this hypothesis?? As always, thanks again for any interest or comments on my build... I know the moderators are swamped so I really appreciate conversation or feedback from anyone on the forum! You guys are really the best!! :thu: Lee

Good work Lee! That's exactly how I pictured it. I think you're designing them well and unless someone else chimes in saying that we're wrong, I think you're on the right track and should continue on! Exciting! Greg