Early Sound Scattering ????

hi all, while googling i stumbled across this site: http://www.electroacoustics.co.uk/ this is the site of a studiodesigner who has another aproach on the frontwall design as i'm used to see here and on some other well known boards. he describes his approach in an article. also have a look at the studiopics. what do you guys think about that? is this a reasonable frontwall design, also when thinking of 5.1? i remember steve said somewhere, that the frontwall in a CR must be pretty absorbtive for 5.1 - wouldn't this work also? (maybe not in small rooms?) thanks dreamer

Dreamer, I'd seen that last year and talked to John about it - his response was (if I remember correctly) somewhere between a good beer fart and a full-diaphragm sausage burp :? I personally would like to hear it in action, but do have reservations about it for any smaller room, same as I'd have using diffusion in same. If we are to believe the hype, Lisa Stansfield loves it, used it in two quite different rooms and claims that mixes travel well - I'm wondering (without hearing it yet) whether it's because two different sized piles of crap still smell like crap, or if this really is the "next big thing" - So far, I know of no rooms like this in the US, and haven't been to Europe in quite a while, so the only way I know to find out is build one - not sure I'm that brave, at least with my OWN money... One concept I'd played with a bit is to build "inserts" for all the front panels around soffits, etc, that are reversible - one side diffused, one side hard - then, a second set, one side absorbed - use the absorbed sides for 5.1, the hard sides for stereo, and the diffuse sides for finding out if ESS is a bunch of hooey or not... Steve

hi steve,

his response was (if I remember correctly) somewhere between a good beer fart and a full-diaphragm sausage burp

thanks for this metaphoric explanation - it helps the layman to understand the higher physics of controlroom design :D :wink: although i'm not a "have been to all the big studios around" guy, i saw lot's of pics from the better ones in europe. they seem to have "normal" frontwalls like in the ones in the US. cheers dreamer

As Steve wrote, the biggest question is how it sounds. Second question ties into the need. Is it a kludge for an unavoidable large early first reflection surface or does it have redeeming value an and of itself? Third, what is the cost? All those slat diffusers ae expensive. I now of four design concepts that are popular right now. In descending order of popularity they are: RFZ Hidley/Newell "non-environment" (next two I don't know the order) ESS Moulton room. The middle two in the list are expensive to build. The last one David writes is quite cheap, so I am suprised I don't read more about it. It must be effective for Record Plant to have a room built to it and use it for years.

It appears his information is guarded (David Moulton) Although looking at his room and reading his description it seems as if the room was designed to be an environment (symmetrical) that uses the existing structure to it's advantage to keep costs down. And it seems his speakers are particular in this room as well.

Justa check the Record Plant or The Plant?? Which one???

Here is some old text from our founding father. LOL and I quote from 3-20-2003

I don't agree with Dave's room design at all. It's called LEDE (live end dead end) and came into fashion in the early eighties. I don't think you'll find many of them still around today because they did not work. I won't go into why I disagree because it's a long long post and I'm tired from all the war talk :) cheers John

And A followup quote from one of our other Major contributing Brothers Knightfly date 3-22-2003

I was under the impression that Dave Moulton was pushing a "Non-Environment" sort of room, using specially designed wide horizontal dispersion speakers, and NOT LEDE at all... Steve BTW, I've not heard anything in a room like this so can't comment at all on sound

Justa check the Record Plant or The Plant?? Which one???

Thanks for catching that. I meant The Plant. Thanks for the additional posts on the sub-subject also.

It appears his information is guarded (David Moulton)

Quite true Andre

what is special (except that it looks good IMO) in the room from the pic above? also not too many here seem to have rooms of that size with an angled roof? has the moulton room all absorbtion on the backwall? (would this then be LEDE as john said?) just curious.

what is special (except that it looks good IMO) in the room from the pic above? also not too many here seem to have rooms of that size with an angled roof? has the moulton room all absorbtion on the backwall? (would this then be LEDE as john said?) just curious.

The papers and articles describing it, and a link to the speaker company, Sausalito Audio Wotks, are at http://www.moultonlabs.com

Thanks for the link! :D

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!! :shot: Not to wake up this long year thread... I have a proposal for my studio design using this ESS I googling and not found much studio using this method and when I saw on the website mentioned, looks old fashioned studio. Anyone has experience to hear in room like this? or any update about this? Thanks in advance

why did you dig up a 6 year old threat? you a spammer?

Ro wrote:

why did you dig up a 6 year old threat? you a spammer?

Hardly. Joe's situation is exactly as he wrote it. The thread is relevent to his studio. What is new since the last posts in this thread is the emergence of appreciation for diffusion. MAssengerg's Blakbird control room being the most famous one. The most telling in my mind is the NARAS recomemndation for diffusion on all surfaces that are not needed for absorption. IOW no reflective surfaces. In terms of my list of control design I think the appropiate name for it might be RFZ II standing for Reflection Free Zone Mark II. The concept is the same for modal and early reflection reduction. Good luck Joe! Andre

Do you have any links about that, André? I'd love to read more about it, especially if there are any technical papers about it! I guess I'm a bit skeptical about this approach: Wouldn't having diffusion around your speakers destroy the whole purpose of having them flush mounted? Wouldn't it also "smear" the stereo image? I'm really curios as to the theory behind this, and how it sounds in reality. - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

Do you have any links about that, André? I'd love to read more about it, especially if there are any technical papers about it!

Theer are several related articles at Electroacoustics. Unfoirtunately the site uses frames, so click on articles on the left. Enjoy! Andre

Frames or not, is this what you mean? http://www.electroacoustics.co.uk/artic ... ssroom.htm

Ro wrote:

Frames or not, is this what you mean? http://www.electroacoustics.co.uk/artic ... ssroom.htm

Yes, that is one of the articles. Thanks. Andre

AVare wrote:

Ro wrote:

why did you dig up a 6 year old threat? you a spammer?

Hardly. Joe's situation is exactly as he wrote it. The thread is relevent to his studio. What is new since the last posts in this thread is the emergence of appreciation for diffusion. MAssengerg's Blakbird control room being the most famous one. The most telling in my mind is the NARAS recomemndation for diffusion on all surfaces that are not needed for absorption. IOW no reflective surfaces. In terms of my list of control design I think the appropiate name for it might be RFZ II standing for Reflection Free Zone Mark II. The concept is the same for modal and early reflection reduction. Good luck Joe! Andre

Thank you Andre.. I'm waiting my layouts from the acoustician I will post here when we start it I have subscribe to "notify when a reply is posted" to this thread but no email shows up, sorry for late reply Maybe because Ro is from netherland (long time -350 yrs- nation which occupying my country INDONESIA) hahaha just sensitive kidding.... :lol: he preassumed me as spammer I did PM andre thru GS forum. Peace all

Old thread that I re-found when looking for something else. But it's interesting to note that the original link to the place in the UK is now dead, and for sale. Pity! I would have liked to re-visit their concepts. - Stuart -

Here you go: https://web.archive.org/web/20040401224 ... ssroom.htm :)

Cool! Thanks very much for that! :thu: - Stuart -