House built around studio design/build thread

Stuart, thank you for the encouragement. Whenever I get your approval, I know things are going to be alright! Two questions for you: - Would you recommend using Green Glue between the beef up layers (wood, steel, wood)? - I'm not sure how far below the speaker bottom I should be aiming to have the absorption panel. I've seen a lot of designs (by guys like John) where it is only a few inches. I'm just quite concerned with the reflective surface causing havoc. Any advice on this would be appreciated. I'll try and get more done on the soffit design here, but I really have to concentrate on redesigning my entire HVAC system :-( Greg

- Would you recommend using Green Glue between the beef up layers (wood, steel, wood)?

You could, I guess, but I'm not sure how well GG will work with steel. Steel is pretty rigid, and the point of GG is to mostly to damp bending waves, which you won't get much of if the panels are very rigid. It might still be worthwhile, since your steel is "only" 1/8, but I'm really not sure. Talk to the folks at GG, and see if they would recommend it for this application.

- I'm not sure how far below the speaker bottom I should be aiming to have the absorption panel. I've seen a lot of designs (by guys like John) where it is only a few inches. I'm just quite concerned with the reflective surface causing havoc. Any advice on this would be appreciated.

Ideally, start the absorber box at desk surface height, or a little below. But for very large speakers, that isn't possible, so just get it as close as you can to that. The real purpose of that device is to deal with any high and mid range reflections coming off the back of the desk or console, so another option is to design your desk to minimize reflections, or to redirect them lower down, where they will hit the absorber. So angle any rear faces on your desk, or build angled "shields" on there (eg, if you have a large format console with a straight-up rear panel or dog box), to reflect more downwards. You only need a small angle, probably: you don't want to be sending stuff to the floor, where it could reflect back at places you didn't want it to go. If that rear side of the desk/console is not going to be visible, you could even put some absorption on that too. Another option, if you are not using a large console, is to make the desk minimal: build it so that it does not offer much surface area at all in the speaker direction, to minimize reflections. Use mostly rounded surfaces, rather than flat surfaces for the structure.

I'll try and get more done on the soffit design here, but I really have to concentrate on redesigning my entire HVAC system

Wrong! :) You have to concentrate on EVERYTHING! All at once.... :) While you juggle a thousand and sixty three parameters at all once, and keep mental track of every single one, and how it affects each of the other thousand and sixty two parameters, in all possible combinations. (Think of Carl Sagan: "Billions and billions of stars...") :) - Stuart -

So, if some of you don't know, I joined this forum around Christmas. I had done a lot of research online and like other new forum members, I had soaked up a bunch of wrong information. That, or maybe just a quote here and there that was correct, but was left with too many unanswered questions. I posted a few questions on here just like everyone else does and Stuart let me know that I was in over my head with unrealistic timelines. Within a few days, I realized that I could use the search feature to answer my questions. As you all know, once your search results pop up, you end up reading 15 page threads that lead to more questions and more searches. The questions keep coming up and luckily, with some pen, paper, an organized folder system on my computer and saving a ton of pictures, I have a lot of answers. Then, after downloading, and still making my way through the Master Handbook of Acoustics: http://www.roletech.net/books/HandbookAcoustics.pdf I'm still only scratching the surface of acoustics. However, compared to everyone else around my part of the world, it seems I have a GREAT grasp on it. I love this world of acoustics and plan to continue studying everyday. I enjoy helping people as it challenges me to solve new problems and therefore pushes me to keep learning. This all leads me to let you guys know that thanks to this great forum and the wonderful Master Handbook of Acoustics, today I was hired as a consultant by an insurance company for the rebuild of a friends commercial recording studio that flooded a few months ago. The insurance company will only build it back to the way it was. If the owner wants to change or improve something, he has to pay for it. Apparently the project manager called around to all of the "acoustic companies" (I quoted them in disgust like that because all they do is sell the same old 2" thick 703 or equivalent panels with adhesive spray on them to hold on G of M fabric and they sell them in every scenario claiming that they will "sound proof" rooms). Every company told the project manager that they new a guy who knows a guy that knows this other guy who might know how to build a studio. My friend owns this flooded commercial studio that was built in 1983 and was built poorly. It is built as you'd expect if you were building a studio in 1983 and didn't have John Sayer's Recording Studio Design Forum at your disposal. No HVAC in the tracking rooms, no room in a room design. 8 Layers of drywall, maybe homasote, maybe press board, for sure a bunch of Asbestos crap, etc on an interleaved ceiling built of dimensional lumber 2x8's. Glass that feels like 1/8" plastic for control room windows. Here's a picture after the restoration company cut out the drywall everywhere that was ruined from a frozen water pipe above. Unfortunately the studio owner is concerned that the building may be torn down before he wants to move out due to it's age and the fact that the area is slowly getting a face lift. Therefore, he doesn't want to dump too much of his personal money into really fixing it up awesome. There is a store above him that strangely doesn't cause too too much noise above him even though the interleaved ceiling construction leads me to believe it is worse than he's letting on. Anyway, he is happy with the isolation he had and therefore I'm going to improve on what he had by making sure 703 is used everywhere and extreme amounts of sealing will happen. Instead of a mish mash of material is used on the ceiling, I'm going to have the company install 8 layers (because that's how many came down and that's what they're able to do on insurance $$$$) of 5/8" drywall, sealing every layer and applying Green Glue. I insisted that we get an engineers stamp for the joists and luckily there's room for probably 2x12 LVL stud if we need it to cover the span of 13' that it has to run. They will actually build a semi-decoupled wall in front of the control room wall (it will flank around all the corners) so it won't be great, but slightly better than it was. Also, on the studio owner's dime, we will install some silencer boxes and pipe in some fresh air into and stale air out of his tracking area. The CFM won't be enough for the room, but unless a MAJOR reno was done, it will be a million times better than what it has been since 1983. Imagine cutting albums all those years for 14 hour days with ZERO fresh air in the tracking room. He said they'd put 10 fans in there for lunch breaks but it wouldn't really help. Duh! And in other news, I'm hired by 3 other home project studios in my area to help them either improve or build their spaces. One has been underway for a few months already. I'm so happy to be able to help people do things the correct way. So, thanks again to everyone who helps answer questions and contributes to this wonderful website. Okay, time to work on some records then maybe work on my design some more! Greg

One thing leads to another. Control room size Good things: - I'm going to move the skinny part of my inner leaf (the front of my control room) over to where the frost wall is in the basement. I realized that there is no reason in losing that space. - The LVL stud for my ceiling skeleton is long enough to accommodate this change (it gives me about an extra foot of width) - This will help tremendously for achieving a larger RFZ sphere. Bad things: - This eats up room for HVAC silencer boxes and so now I'm redesigning all of those. Not going good, but it's going. Noggins hurt my noggin All bad things: - 3 out of the 5 super heavy doors in my design are screwed for having reinforcing noggins. 2 of them will have jack posts (I have them drawn as round, but in reality they are square) and the 3rd one will be in the the corner up on a platform. I'll worry about that one when the live room design starts taking shape. See picture of the control room and ISO room issue here: These two will have the hinges on the crappy jack post side of the jamb :horse: Question: How should I go about reinforcing these? Thoughts I had: - Steel square HSS tubing for a king stud (anchoring this to the concrete could be a pain as I don't really want a platform sticking out at the bottom due to me not having flooring - I am just applying epoxy to the concrete) - It seems that strong wood flexes. It seems that hard wood is brittle. I was hoping to maybe just use some awesome wood that would be sturdy enough to not need the noggin situation. - Cut a 4x4 to fit perfectly into the space between my outer king stud and the jack post then strap my king stud assembly to the jack post using some hanger strap. - Maybe I'm over thinking the importance of the noggin reinforcement. Greg

Gregwor wrote:

Noggins hurt my noggin All bad things: - 3 out of the 5 super heavy doors in my design are screwed for having reinforcing noggins. 2 of them will have jack posts (I have them drawn as round, but in reality they are square) and the 3rd one will be in the the corner up on a platform. I'll worry about that one when the live room design starts taking shape. See picture of the control room and ISO room issue here:

Not preserved: Noggins Hurt My Noggin.jpg

These two will have the hinges on the crappy jack post side of the jamb :horse: Question: How should I go about reinforcing these? Thoughts I had: - Steel square HSS tubing for a king stud (anchoring this to the concrete could be a pain as I don't really want a platform sticking out at the bottom due to me not having flooring - I am just applying epoxy to the concrete) - It seems that strong wood flexes. It seems that hard wood is brittle. I was hoping to maybe just use some awesome wood that would be sturdy enough to not need the noggin situation. - Cut a 4x4 to fit perfectly into the space between my outer king stud and the jack post then strap my king stud assembly to the jack post using some hanger strap. - Maybe I'm over thinking the importance of the noggin reinforcement. Greg

I'm struggling to visualise your door problem here. On the picture I can see simple openings for doors with timber lintels. That seems standard. But then you have what looks like metal columns in the wall. Do these have big hinges on and the whole wall opens?

I'm struggling to visualise your door problem here.

Do my arrows and text boxes help explain the issue better? In other news, I'm re-designing the entire ISO room HVAC as after sitting down and doing the math, my idea to work around the mechanical contractors carnage won't work. Basically, I think I'm going to rotate the duct work 90 degrees. I will have to have both my supply and return inner leaf silencer boxes inside the room on the ceiling. Pros: - only two ceiling corners will be occupied by duct work instead of 3 in my initial design. - less duct work = less cost - no silencers above my ceiling joists means I will be able to maintain a good MSM gap Cons: - the large width of the silencer box hanging down right above the door in the room will make initial feelings entering the room claustrophobic. - smaller room area. - this new design will require me finding room outside of the room for outer leaf silencers. I confirmed that I can in fact fit two of my inner and outer leaf silencers in the smaller space at the front of my control room. So, this means a drastic improvement in my control room footprint! Once I get this HVAC sorted out, I'm going to call around and see what AHU will best suit my needs (and space). I really want to zone control my ISO room and control room. I was looking into this one: LG AHU Concerns with it: - Will the fan in it be able to handle the static pressure of the system? (I can't calculate that until I finish the duct work and silencer box design) - It only has low, medium, and high settings. How will this fair with zoning and CFM/air velocity!?!?!?! I just imagine the electronic damper closing off my control room and it pounding on medium or high a ton of air into the ISO room with too much velocity. I'd prefer and variable speed unit for this reason alone. Lastly, the home builder has told us that they expect possession date to be Sept 19th. So that's just 2 months away. The pressure is on for me to finish this basement design. I'll post more pics once I solidify more. Like Stuart said, it's a total juggling act in the design stage. Greg

Okay, I'd like some other opinions for this as well please! For my ISO room, as I stated in my previous post, I will have the inner leaf silencers inside the room. In this design, I will drop through my inside out ceiling into the silencers, and then they will attach to trunk with duct liner that hooks into my register plenums. Here it is: Concerns with this option #1: - I will probably have to add a 4th baffle (acoustically this isn't bad, but it adds more cost and expense) in order to have the connection point to the trunk where it needs to be. - I would like to move the silencer further into the room so that I have good tri-corner bass trapping, but then my silencer will probably be too long unless I go down to 2 baffles which isn't really an option in my opinion. Now, the other option would be to extend my inner/outer leaf sleeve via normal duct and some flex duct along the length of the room and penetrate the inside out ceiling in the middle section of the room (where the register plenums are in the "1 Box Per" design picture above. From there, using Stuarts design, it would Y split and drive one long silencer box. The registers would shoot horizontally out the fronts of the silencer boxes, eliminating the need for any trunk with duct liner or $200 registers (yes, the ones I currently have in my design are expensive ass linear slot Nailor's). Concerns with option #2: - More MDF and duct liner as well as 8" duct and flex duct. However, I'm sure it will all be much cheaper than the trunk with duct liner and Nailor register. - Extending the silencer outlet sleeves to ensure laminar air might look ugly as hell. - Now the entire wall/ceiling corner will be silencer and prevent bass trapping usage. - Bass traps in the corners will be slightly messed up in the corners due to the register openings. I'd like anyone's opinion on these new dilemmas if possible please. Thanks for following and any ideas you guys have! Also, for anyone reading this trying to learn, do not put your door far in the corner like it is in my design. This was unavoidable for me and I'm sure it will hinder the rooms acoustics as I won't be able to bass trap much there. I am building this room entirely inside out, so that will give me a few more inches in the corner for bass trap depth. Greg

ISO HVAC: No one has chimed in, but so far I think I'm going to stick with my original design. I realized I can just flip the trunk and register positions which will allow me to have only 3 baffles in the silencer boxes. Like this: And as usual, jumping around on my design, I tackled ray tracing... again. I tried sliding my entire front wall assembly back into the room which would allow me to mount a sub into the front wall eventually and have it flush with the window wall. This didn't turn out good. I would have had to angle my speakers even further in and I'd be going in circles. The biggest reason I wanted to move the speakers further into the room would be to achieve a larger RFZ sphere around my head in the vertical plane. Extending the side walls out fixed my horizontal rays amazingly. Check it: So, after moving the front wall back to the way I had it, I re-designed the cloud. It's different than I ever imagined, but it seems to work well. I have over 2 feet of RFZ sphere around my head now. Check it: And a view from the back of the control room: The clouds are weird textures with transparent bottoms, but you get the idea. I think I'm going to add little wings to the sides of the cloud and back light them. This new cloud will allow a very large non-hard backed first section which will rule for bass trapping. Please chime in about any and all of this stuff, friends! Thanks for following and pointing out any awesome or horrible things I've come up with thus far. Greg

Gregwor wrote:

ISO HVAC: No one has chimed in, but so far I think I'm going to stick with my original design. I realized I can just flip the trunk and register positions which will allow me to have only 3 baffles in the silencer boxes. Like this:

Hi Greg, struggling to see how flipping them like this allows you not to have a 4th baffle over the other design, but you seem to know what you're doing with it so all seems good.

Gregwor wrote:

Do my arrows and text boxes help explain the issue better?

They do yes thanks. If the walls are fixed directly to the steel jack posts I wouldn't worry about additional noggins, those connections will probably be far more secure than the adjacent timber sections. If you're worried about the timber twisting with the door swinging on them, you could put some noggins in (rotate them 90degrees on edge if they fit and you won't need to rip them down.)

Gregwor wrote:

So, after moving the front wall back to the way I had it, I re-designed the cloud. It's different than I ever imagined, but it seems to work well. I have over 2 feet of RFZ sphere around my head now. Check it:

I like it a lot. The angled bass trap at the front near the window is nice, you could probably get some nice long hangers or wave guides up there behind some thick absorption. Have you considered the facing on that section yet? Plastic strips or wood could be cool for not sucking the top end out, but you'll probably need to wait to measure the room first. The RFZ looks good btw. You thought about your back wall yet?

Gregwor wrote:

So, after moving the front wall back to the way I had it, I re-designed the cloud. It's different than I ever imagined, but it seems to work well. I have over 2 feet of RFZ sphere around my head now. Check it:

Oh quick note! I realised when playing on sketchup the other night, if you trace the vertical RFZ from a single speaker at the correct angle, it's a little different, especially when angled clouds come into play. This makes sense, the distance to your ears is greater from a speaker, than from the midpoint of the two speakers. This means the rfz falls closer to your head then it seems on a ray trace eminating from the mid point of the speakers. If you want to ray trace using the speaker angle add the rays to the speaker component itself and the rotation axes will be relational to the speaker rotation, so you can still use the handy red, blue and green axes with your protractor tool

Hi Greg, struggling to see how flipping them like this allows you not to have a 4th baffle over the other design, but you seem to know what you're doing with it so all seems good. So, in my first rendition, the trunk was closer to the wall and to have the exit of the silencer match up with it, I'd need the 4th baffle. I flipped the trunk and register positions so the register will be closer to the wall instead. Now, the exit of the silencer will line up with the trunk only having 3 baffles.

If the walls are fixed directly to the steel jack posts I wouldn't worry about additional noggins, those connections will probably be far more secure than the adjacent timber sections.

For sure. I'm going to investigate drilling holes through the jack posts for this. I sure hope it's to code.

Have you considered the facing on that section yet?

Measurements will determine that. For now, fabric is the only thing I know will be on there in some form or another!

The RFZ looks good btw. You thought about your back wall yet?

Just hangers. I initially had 20" for rear wall treatment but added an extra 4" to it last night to make an even 2 ft. I would like a diffuser on the back wall for aesthetics, but I do know that it will make the mix sound worse for the band. I'm leaning towards having one because ultimately, I want the room to sound the best for me, not them.

I realised when playing on sketchup the other night, if you trace the vertical RFZ from a single speaker at the correct angle, it's a little different, especially when angled clouds come into play.

One night I messed around with that and it hurt my head, bad. I couldn't for the life of me trace the angle properly. You should make a tutorial video on YouTube showing how to do it ;-)

If you want to ray trace using the speaker angle add the rays to the speaker component itself and the rotation axes will be relational to the speaker rotation, so you can still use the handy red, blue and green axes with your protractor tool

I totally get that, but how are you taking the angle of the cloud into account? (the ray isn't going to stay parallel to the speaker) Thanks Waka for the response. I sometimes feel like I'm talking to myself here haha Greg

on a ray trace eminating from the mid point of the speakers.

Ummm... that's why the rays of a ray trace should NOT come from the midpoint of your speaker! They should come from the acoustic center of the speaker! The spot where the acoustic axis starts.

If you want to ray trace using the speaker angle add the rays to the speaker component itself and the rotation axes will be relational to the speaker rotation, so you can still use the handy red, blue and green axes with your protractor tool

This is how I do it: That version only goes out to 35°. I have other versions that go out more. There are several layers of components there, with different things attached to different parts of the model, but yes, at the top level of the hierarchy they are all attached to the speaker, so moving or rotating the speaker also moves and rotates the ray-trace "cone". Note that the ray-trace component is centered on the acoustic axis, not the middle of the speaker. Important. - Stuart -

but how are you taking the angle of the cloud into account? (the ray isn't going to stay parallel to the speaker)

Draw a series of rays from the acoustic center to the cloud, all in the same plane, but at various angles at regular intervals, as I show in the diagram above. At the spot where each ray meets the cloud, drop a construction line perpendicular to the cloud. Measure the angle between that perpendicular and the ray, and draw a new ray that starts from the intersection point, but flipped to the opposite direction by the SAME angle (angle of reflection= angle of incidence). In other words, if the incoming ray strikes the solid surface of the cloud at 27° from perpendicular, then the reflected ray will start out from that same spot, but angled at 27° in the opposite direction. It's boring, tedious, but not that hard to do. - Stuart -

Draw a series of rays from the acoustic center to the cloud, all in the same plane, but at various angles at regular intervals, as I show in the diagram above. At the spot where each ray meets the cloud, drop a construction line perpendicular to the cloud. Measure the angle between that perpendicular and the ray, and draw a new ray that starts from the intersection point, but flipped to the opposite direction by the SAME angle (angle of reflection= angle of incidence). In other words, if the incoming ray strikes the solid surface of the cloud at 27° from perpendicular, then the reflected ray will start out from that same spot, but angled at 27° in the opposite direction.

Coming to save the day as usual! I'll give this a shot when I'm not feeling so sick an can handle the tedious task. Do you have any insight on my other posts by chance Stuart? Thanks again! :D Greg

Soundman2020 wrote:

Ummm... that's why the rays of a ray trace should NOT come from the midpoint of your speaker! They should come from the acoustic center of the speaker! The spot where the acoustic axis starts.

Hi Stuart, I was actually referring to how Greg had drawn his RFZ from a point between the two speakers' acoustic axis, perpendicular to his front wall. I understand it needs to be at the acoustic axis.

Soundman2020 wrote:

Draw a series of rays from the acoustic center to the cloud, all in the same plane, but at various angles at regular intervals, as I show in the diagram above. At the spot where each ray meets the cloud, drop a construction line perpendicular to the cloud

This is also how I do it :)

Well, I've been working quite hard on the design, jumping from one thing to another. I have a question that maybe someone could shed some light on. Here in this picture you can see that my lower soffit hangers are pretty short due to 4" of insulation around the walls. Obviously deeper insulation works better, but so do deeper hangers. If you had to choose between deeper hangers or deeper wall insulation, what would you choose? Obviously deeper wall insulation would be the cheaper solution as homasote is outrageously priced here. In other updates, I think I'm getting my HVAC subpanel (which will have my home central air conditioner on it as well as my live room mini split) as well as my "studio" sub panel (which will have all of my outlets on one leg and lights on the other leg) run/hooked up tomorrow. Greg

I would drop the thickness of the one at the top of your picture to 2", and add 2" length to all of your hangers. The 2" thickness is still reasonably decent. Also, try angling your hangers a little, instead of having them head-on to the front of the soffit. Perhaps have the one on the right more or less parallel to the right edge (skip that small one on the right, and start with the large one). Also consider extending the front of each hanger so that it "sticks out" in the empty area between the framing members, if possible. Maximize surface area of each hanger. - Stuart -

So here is a picture of the sub panels installed. The bottom small one is for the house central air conditioning unit and the ductless mini split I'll have for the drum room/garage room. The top sub panel will be for outlets and lights for all three of the studio rooms. Overkill at 100 Amps for the top sub panel as I'll be running LED lights and don't have lots of outboard gear. But hey, I didn't pay for the wire! And, I've been hard at work on SketchUp. 10+ hours each week doing research and drawing. Then ~2-4 hours a day studying the Acoustic Handbook and this forum. I'm getting fine details sorted out for things like ceiling joists and the window framing. I'm also really close to being done the soffit design. I've blocked out the mounting system out of respect for Stuart. I'm happy with how I designed the speaker mount module so that I can change speaker types with ease. You can see the divider platform is two layers of 1/2" MDF, then the base of the module itself is also two layers of 1/2" MDF. It bolts in with ease. I am going to use 1" of 703 in front of hangers and areas like that. There is no dimensional lumber that is exactly 1" thick, so I've decided to use regular dimensional lumber (like 1x6"), run it through the jointer to make it nice and square and then rip it to 1" strips. With that, I can build frames to hold the 703 and pull fabric taut over it/staple it to the backside of the 1" lumber. After that, I think I'll use 2" brad nails to fix these units wherever needed. If anyone has any better methods, please share. I'm at the stage where I'm thinking about finishing materials. For example, I was trying to figure out how I could cover up the nasty side of my soffit baffle beef material AND fix 1" of 703 (as described above) to the side of the soffit (the window area that has grey fabric in "blocked soffit design 1" picture). I found some trim that has a bit of a weird shape made by a company called Alexandria. It's not super expensive (but not cheap as it's a white primed real wood, not MDF) but it has dimensions of 1 1/4" x 4 9/16" which is almost perfect. You can see it here on the right side of the picture, from below so you can see the profile. The shape of it lends to my viewing angles into the ISO room too! Along with the fabric frames challenge came a struggle I've yet to conquer. You can see in the pic below, I've drawn the profile with simple lines on Layer0 in Sketchup where I need to have backing to fix fabric to. It's a tilted/twisted nightmare. To make sense of the picture, the bottom right is the soffit, the bottom left is the soffit wing, the top left is the HVAC soffit frame that runs down the sides and across the back ceiling of my control room. The top right is my cloud (ignore the colors - I'm just experimenting with colors and fabrics that I've found on 3D Warehouse). Anyway, I'll keep working and keeping you guys updated. Please chime in with any thoughts, concerns, or tips! Greg

Gregwor wrote:

So here is a picture of the sub panels installed. The bottom small one is for the house central air conditioning unit and the ductless mini split I'll have for the drum room/garage room. The top sub panel will be for outlets and lights for all three of the studio rooms. Overkill at 100 Amps for the top sub panel as I'll be running LED lights and don't have lots of outboard gear. But hey, I didn't pay for the wire!

Not preserved: Sub Panels.jpeg

And, I've been hard at work on SketchUp. 10+ hours each week doing research and drawing. Then ~2-4 hours a day studying the Acoustic Handbook and this forum. I'm getting fine details sorted out for things like ceiling joists and the window framing. I'm also really close to being done the soffit design. I've blocked out the mounting system out of respect for Stuart. I'm happy with how I designed the speaker mount module so that I can change speaker types with ease. You can see the divider platform is two layers of 1/2" MDF, then the base of the module itself is also two layers of 1/2" MDF. It bolts in with ease.

Not preserved: Blocked Soffit Mounting 1.jpg

Not preserved: Blocked Soffit Design 1.jpg

I am going to use 1" of 703 in front of hangers and areas like that. There is no dimensional lumber that is exactly 1" thick, so I've decided to use regular dimensional lumber (like 1x6"), run it through the jointer to make it nice and square and then rip it to 1" strips. With that, I can build frames to hold the 703 and pull fabric taut over it/staple it to the backside of the 1" lumber. After that, I think I'll use 2" brad nails to fix these units wherever needed. If anyone has any better methods, please share. I'm at the stage where I'm thinking about finishing materials. For example, I was trying to figure out how I could cover up the nasty side of my soffit baffle beef material AND fix 1" of 703 (as described above) to the side of the soffit (the window area that has grey fabric in "blocked soffit design 1" picture). I found some trim that has a bit of a weird shape made by a company called Alexandria. It's not super expensive (but not cheap as it's a white primed real wood, not MDF) but it has dimensions of 1 1/4" x 4 9/16" which is almost perfect. You can see it here on the right side of the picture, from below so you can see the profile. The shape of it lends to my viewing angles into the ISO room too!

Not preserved: Trim 1.jpg

Along with the fabric frames challenge came a struggle I've yet to conquer. You can see in the pic below, I've drawn the profile with simple lines on Layer0 in Sketchup where I need to have backing to fix fabric to. It's a tilted/twisted nightmare. To make sense of the picture, the bottom right is the soffit, the bottom left is the soffit wing, the top left is the HVAC soffit frame that runs down the sides and across the back ceiling of my control room. The top right is my cloud (ignore the colors - I'm just experimenting with colors and fabrics that I've found on 3D Warehouse).

Not preserved: Cloud Meets HVAC Soffit Framing.jpg

Anyway, I'll keep working and keeping you guys updated. Please chime in with any thoughts, concerns, or tips! Greg

Looking good! About your fabric problem in the last image, Is there a reason why you need to use fabric here? To me it makes more sense to run your hvac soffit framing the entire length of the wall and box it in with plasterboard (drywall), then increase the height of the speaker baffle wing, but cut the corner out of it to slot around the hvac soffit, and also make the cloud slot around the hvac soffit too. This is the best image I could come up with on my phone whilst laying in bed :lol: Maybe it will give you an idea of what I mean. Orange represents the hvac soffit boarded in. Brown is a continuation of the speaker baffle wing cut around the hvac soffit. The blue line is showing the cloud fitted around the baffle wing and hvac soffit, alternatively you could just make the cloud not as wide here and make it larger once past the speaker baffle wings. Just a suggestion.

Waka (please tell me your real name haha), thanks for your input as usual!

Is there a reason why you need to use fabric here? To me it makes more sense to run your hvac soffit framing the entire length of the wall and box it in with plasterboard (drywall), then increase the height of the speaker baffle wing, but cut the corner out of it to slot around the hvac soffit, and also make the cloud slot around the hvac soffit too.

Yes, leaving the top and bottom of the baffle "open" will prevent deflection of sound in those areas, allowing sound to enter the hanger section behind (I'm working on that section design now). Also, I hate finishing plasterboard and if possible, will avoid having much exposed, period.

This is the best image I could come up with on my phone whilst laying in bed

I'm impressed with your skills! Greg

I just finished the soffit wing design. You can see the hangers and such in the picture. The longest hanger is 4' 7 1/4" long. Homasote and insulation batts only come in 4' lengths, so I'll either have to have a second hanger at the end of the longest one to add the extra 7 1/4" (as I've drawn) or just super chunk that little bit. I think it will come down to cost of material. Greg

My name's Dan btw :) I like the hanger design. Are those hangers parallel to the side wall? If so I believe they work more effectively angled away from parallel to act like wave guides. For the fabric covering, it might be worth covering the baffle wing top ( with fabric ) before putting the hvac soffit frame in.

If so I believe they work more effectively angled away from parallel to act like wave guides.

They still work as waveguides, Dan, even when parallel to the side walls. When they get that big, angling them even a tiny bit reduces the number you can fit in, and makes it complicated. The main reason for angling small ones is so you can make them larger without using up more room depth, but that's not so much of a problem in the corners. Those are plenty large, and will go deep. - Stuart -

So I finished my control room and ISO room inside out ceiling design (minus cutting holes for my HVAC silencer sleeves to penetrate it. The thing that was really bumming me out was that 703 only comes in 2x4 foot batts, and so does drywall and OSB (well 4x8). So, I'm either going to be wasting large amounts of OSB/drywall, or if I make the modules 2 feet wide total, I'll have to trim off 3" of 703 from the length and width. I decided that I'd rather trim off the insulation as I can use it to stuff in places like the soffit, couch riser or the attic portion of my garage. Besides, when I got the engineers stamp for the 7 1/4" deep LVL stud, it was for 2 ft on centre. Anyway, just to keep you guys in the loop, and I know you all like pictures, here is the modules for the rooms looking from below. They are framed out of 2x6" dimensional lumber and have 1/2" OSB, then two layers of 5/8" drywall on top. A 2x6 is only 5 1/2" tall and the LVL is 7 1/4" deep. That leaves 1 3/4". The 1/2" OSB + two layers of 5/8" drywall = a depth of 1 3/4" which is perfect. Now, I'm going to price out the difference between 4" thick 703 for the modules (which would leave a 1 1/2" air gap above the insulation or use 5 1/2" thick Owens Corning Pink Fluffy R24. I can't even remember what the exact dimensions of the fluffy is. If it works out that the fluffy is cheaper, I might have to tweak the dimensions of my modules... again :-( Greg

And continuing on with some ceiling design, I checked out some pictures of a Canadian studio design firm: http://www.pilchner-schoustal.com Basically, I was just inspired by the modern aesthetics of their designs. In order to make my spaces easy enough for me to build without wasting a ton of material and time, I'd prefer to keep things at 22.5 or 45 degrees. Clearly, things like the soffit and soffit wing will be exceptions, but there's no real way around that. Anyway, the cloud right over head (which is parallel to the inside out ceiling above it) will be anchored directly to the inside out skeleton LVL. I will mount lights in it and it will provide "thick" insulation (11") I could build this frame out of 2x4's instead of 2x6's and have 9" of insulation above head instead. I'm honestly not sure whether I need such thick insulation on the ceiling. The two extra inches would help the room feel bigger. . . Either way, that's an easy enough change. If anyone has any input on that, please chime in. Furthermore, I want to build it into shapes to provide some aesthetic appeal. Between the shapes, I can leave 1" gaps where I can hopefully stuff some LED strip lighting. Between the cloud and my HVAC soffit framing, I will leave 9 1/2" gap where I can also build in some strip lighting for that glowing cloud effect. After sketching a ton of different shapes and ideas, here's the first one I drew up on SketchUp: The brown wood chunks would have pot lights in them. There would be no voids in the cloud other than the 1" gaps between shapes despite this drawing having some of the shapes without texture on them. I have also thought about inlaying some strips of different coloured wood on my soffit wing baffles. Something in the triangular theme. Not lots, but something to tie the room together aesthetically. Greg