I figured it would, but that was inevitable..Got some throw rugs to put down when needed...
CR Treatment and Tuning---The home stretch!!
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 21368.
All done with that!!
:thu: Nice work! Nice choice in texture, too. Looks very elegant.
- Stuart -
:D
It looks like you intend mdf on the ribs? I bought pine not noticing at first but might be able to return it.
Ohh, never mind. I an see in the model that it is...I can return the pine fortunately..
Pine is fine, as long as it is good quality, fully dried, and won't warp in the future. I prefer MDF for this type of shaper rib, since it will keep it's shape over time without warping, twisting, bowing, etc. Good quality pine, or ply, or even OSB, would be OK too.
You'll need to work carefully at the thin point close to the outer end, as that's only about 1/2" wide, IIRC. Might need to beef that up with extra wood on both sides, to help keep it intact.
I'd suggest making one as a template first, then checking that it fits, all the way up and down the entire height, modifying as necessary, then using that to cut out all the others. Clamp them all together for the final sanding, to ensure that the all have the same shape, as much as possible.
- Stuart -
Definitely going to make a template... Pine might hold together better than MDF at 1/2 inch..hmmmmm.
The pine I have is fully kiln-dried so no worries there.. I'll think about it a bit. I have choices. That's good.
If I had to guess I'll probably have it done by Tuesday next week.
Cool! I'd suggest that you start at the middle and work outwards with the slats. So put up the first three slats on each side closest to the middle of the rear wall, REW test, then the next three on each side, REW test, etc. It might turn out that we don't need the last couple on the far ends, near the doors. I think we will need them, but just to save you the effort do it in steps. Also, I don't know of you noticed, but I changed the pattern of the slats on the rear center section (the ones you had put up temporarily). Just reshuffling a bit, and taking out the thinner ones closest to ear height. So don't forget to change those too. You can make those permanent, if you want. - Stuart -If I had to guess I'll probably have it done by Tuesday next week.
Hopefully they can go in because I think it will look weird if they're not there... I'll make sure to check the slats thanks!It might turn out that we don't need the last couple on the far ends, near the doors. I think we will need them, but just to save you the effort do it in steps.
So now that you've created 18 separate compartments, do they need to be sealed from each other? Also, How exact do the vertical separator locations need to be?
Still spinning my wheels a bit, but hopefully momentum will pick up soon. I changed out the pine for 3/4 plywood on the framing. I'll still use pine on the face boards of course. Thinking things through definitely slows me way down!
Yep. Better get a truckload of caulk....So now that you've created 18 separate compartments, do they need to be sealed from each other?
Roughly in the center of those two slats, give or take a few mm. Extreme precision not necessary.Also, How exact do the vertical separator locations need to be?
Right! But as the saying goes: "The devil is in the details"... - Stuart -Thinking things through definitely slows me way down!
Fortunately I have a case left over...should cover it. The motor sputters back to life!!! Soffit bottoms. Hopefully have those done tomorrow if the paint dries fast enough.Yep. Better get a truckload of caulk....
Hey guys, one question: I see you have covered plain insulation with panels that are covered with cloth. What type of cloth did you use? I know the rule that you are supposed to be able to blow air through it for the material to work in a studio, but what about the micro particles coming from the insulation? Over time these do release dust. My concern is about cleaning dust that would potentially come out of the insulation through the cloth. How does it affect existing studios over time and if it does what precautions are taken here?If you want to try out any variations of the slat wall, I can tack the boards over the panels and plastic for testing before committing to a finished product.
From all of my research, nobody out there directly addresses the concept of out dusting with regards to fabric marketing. I've come across several forum threads asking the same questions. There's lots of speculation, but I haven't found any determinable science on the matter. I defer to my own paranoia on that one.
I trust Gilfords of Maine or acoustic rated products up against 703 rigid, even though 703 is somewhat dusty. Its not nearly as bad as soft insulation. With the soft stuff, I use duct liner behind the fabric. The barrier is breathable and designed to retain fibers as it is used in HVAC duct plus it ads another 1" of insulation. Now that is pricey, but I feel better about it which is worth the cost to me.
Alright then....More wrenches in the plan albeit minor ones....
The vents are hitting the soffit frames a bit. Gonna have to finish the trim around the vents and put the covers on. Then I'll have to install the soffit over that.
No other options really...This is defintely gonna take longer than I thought...You slowed me down good!! :cen: :P
Seriously though, I'm just hoping I can get one more project to keep me busy while your out in March like the speaker soffits..I likely won't be done with this for another week the way its going. I think its going to look nice though.
Strange! I adjusted that carefully, many times over, precisely so that would not happen. Maybe your silencer boxes are a bit off from the plans? Can you adjust the soffits? Make them a bit shorter, so they don't go right up to the ceiling? Or modify the silencer box end plates a little, so they don't interfere with the soffits? According to the model, there's a gap of a couple of mm there... I hate it when reality does not match the design! Down with reality! Designs rule! :)The vents are hitting the soffit frames a bit.
You could start on the cloud... The design there won't change much. I might reduce the tilt angle a little, since I don't think it will need to be tilted so steeply (which will make the CR look a little nicer too, I think), but changing the hang angle is fairly easily: Adjust the chain length for larger angle changes (fewer links or more links), and rotate the screw eyes for fine adjustment (use long screw eyes on both ends of the chain, so you can have plenty of thread deep in the wood and still get a few mm adjustment either way). So you could start making the cloud frames, if you run out of things to do... Soffits are gonna be fun! I'm contemplating additional changes, to better compliment your new speakers... :) - Stuart -I'm just hoping I can get one more project to keep me busy while your out in March
LOL... the design world is definitely cosier... I'm just going to do some cut outs on the top board to fit... I don't feel like going back and redoing any of the work I've already done if I can help it...
I did a pretty good job of matching things like that with the model but there's always slight discrepancies. We were already working with a tight space to begin with.. this stuff is just going to be finicky and take longer than I'd hoped, that's all there is to it.
Could you guess at the angle change if you had to at this point? It would be nice to get it in the ballpark if we could. I can definitely start working on it next. Also I want to make sure that nothing behind the cloud is going to change like the slats above the sliders or the space above the soffit... come to think of it, will that space be open like it is in the model with just insulation in the framing?
How much soft insulation did you use? I assumed you only used 703 or its analogue. I thought you used the soft ones inside the acoustic panels and 703 between the wall studs.With the soft stuff, I use duct liner behind the fabric. The barrier is breathable and designed to retain fibers as it is used in HVAC duct plus it ads another 1" of insulation. Now that is pricey, but I feel better about it which is worth the cost to me.
Not at all, I used well over 100 bags of rock wool and fiberglass bats throughout the studio walls... I only use rigid type insulation in features like soffits and bass traps. The expense would be insane otherwise...
Hmm.. What density are we talking about here (kg/m3)? I ordered an analogue of 703 for my studio that has a density of around 45-50 kg/m3. As far as I understand from reading this forum it should be the best one for broadband absorption, correct? I base that on the OC specifications provided in their website. I wanted to order OC703 from the US, but they quoted me almost 3K to ship to europe and i found a similar mineral wool product called Paroc eXtra Plus. Which was also much cheaper, for some reason..Not at all, I used well over 100 bags of rock wool and fiberglass bats throughout the studio walls... I only use rigid type insulation in features like soffits and bass traps. The expense would be insane otherwise...
Sorry don't have the numbers off hand you'd have to look that up..Don't what you mean by analogue.
Sorry, analogue meaning equivalent or similar to 703. Well ive checked the numbers in the Owens Corning website. I hope im not mistaken, since the insulation recently arrived :))Sorry don't have the numbers off hand you'd have to look that up..Don't what you mean by analogue.
I don't know that rigid insulation would be a bad thing...just doesn't seem cost effective at least here in the states. Is your concern isolation related? Is so, then more density is better and rigid will be more dense of course. Ulitmately the density of the hard surfaces is of greater concern for isolation. In my case its a double wall two leaf system with about 2" of material in each leaf.
Then it isn't an analogue of 703! :) Beware when companies try to sell you acoustic products that are "just the same as X, but much cheaper"! That's like someone trying to sell you a mic that's "exactly the same as a U47", but costs only a hundred dollars.... Or a console that sounds "identical to an SSL", but the price tag says US$ 500... For starters, if what you got is mineral wool, then it is nothing like OC-703, which is a fiberglass product. With a density of 45-50 kg/m3, it might still be reasonably good for bass trapping, but it won't be the same as 703. The only way you'd be able to know if it really is the same as 703, is if you compare the actual acoustic data for that product, as measured in a reputable independent acoustic test lab... - Stuart -I ordered an analogue of 703 for my studio that has a density of around 45-50 kg/m3. ... i found a similar mineral wool product called Paroc eXtra Plus. Which was also much cheaper, for some reason
Do you have a link to that? I'd like to see it... Also, density is not really the issue. What matters is something called "Gas Flow Resistivity", which is measured in the unlikely units of "MKS rayls". There's an approximate relationship between density and GFR, but it is different for each type of insulation. For fiberglass products, if the density is around 28 g/m3 then it should have decent GFR that is suitable for wall cavities and bass traps. But if the material is mineral wool, then you'd need a density of around 48 kg/m3 to get similar GFR. However, the relationship isn't perfect, and there's still the issue of binders, additives, and the manufacturing process itself. There's also the issue of what you want to use it for: If you need it to absorb only high frequencies without doing much for lows, then you need a much higher density, probably around 60-80 kg/m3 for fiberglass, and maybe 90-120 kg/m3 for mineral wool. But if you want something that is better at absorbing down to very low frequencies, then you need a lower density. Maybe 20 kg/m3 (fiberglass) or 30 kg/m3 (mineral wool). And as Frank mentioned, there's also the difference between non-rigid ("fluffy"), semi-rigid, and rigid products, as well as faced and un-faced, and in the case of faced, if it is kraft paper, foil, or something else. Take care when you compare products: Make sure they really do perform the same, by comparing published independent specs! There are other products that perform as well as 703, or even better, but usually they are not cheaper. There's a certain cost to making high quality insulation products that absorb down to low frequencies, and cutting corners makes the product cheaper, but not better. - Stuart -has a density of around 45-50 kg/m3. As far as I understand from reading this forum it should be the best one for broadband absorption, correct? I base that on the OC specifications provided in their website.