First post here, glad to have found you all.
First off, I did a search, and found some useful information, but unfortunately nothing that pertained exactly to my needs. Unfortunately I don't know enough to transfer knowledge from another build to my own.
I'll try and keep this brief and to the point. Construction will start at the end of the spring. Single room design. Rarely will I track inside the space, mostly a mix and post production room. 100% isolation from the outside world is not required, I'd just like a reasonably quiet place to work and not keep up my neighbors (about 60ft away on either side). Perfect acoustics are not being shot for. Again, it's about being a good space to work in not perfection. Budget will not allow that (I have roughly 15k USD to work with). (I don't have a dB meter, so I can't immediately tell you how loud I normally work, but if I'm working with an artist or client and they sit beside me, we can usually carry on a conversation without straining too much. Occasionally I will crank it to check a mix, but not that often. Definitely work on the quieter side.)
The Space
-2 car garage, total remodel.
-16.5 x 18.5 x 8 (vaulted ceilings with a 13" apex)
-About 3000 cubit feet
-New slab floor (already laid)
Construction
-Wood siding exterior walls
-3.5" open cell foam in stud cavity of walls
-1" air gap
-Second framed wall with 2" mineral wool and 2 layers of 5/8" dry wall
-Ceiling stud cavities will be filled with 3.5" open cell foam, and 2
layers of drywall with green glue will be applied directly to the studs, no
second framed ceiling. (hope I can get away with this!)
-One window and one door. Not sure if I'll frame over the window. It would be cheaper
than building an acoustic window, or ordering one, but I think I may miss the sunlight.
-Heating and cooling from a Mitsubishi mini split
-I'll be following various books for construction methods (including Sayers' book)
I'm gonna need fresh air, clearly. I'm looking for design ideas that will let me exchange air, and not
introduce tons of noise, as we all are. I can incorporate pretty much anything in to the buildout at this
point, as long as it's not outrageously expensive (I've budgeted $500-800 for the fresh air system. I
have a contractor to do the mini split, but I'll be designing and building the fresh air.)
I know there are tricks to running ducts at multiple 90 degree turns to help eliminate noise, as well as
insulation inside the ducts. I know a large fan that can run at a slow speed, and large ducts. I'd like my supply to
dump above the mini split to condition fresh air. What I don't know is anything else.
-Should the fan be on the interior, or do they make all weather fans so it can be on the exterior?
-Can I add some kind of filtration on the supply side?
-Where is the smartest place to vent from? I'm guessing the ceiling to eliminate hot air.
-Are the existing designs that I could be pointed to for DIY systems like this?
I've thought about an ERV, because I do live in a climate with warmer humid summers. But that is $$. Plus, it seems like
an ERV would just run and be really loud (from what I've read they need to be installed in a conditioned space, which
eliminated my ideas of building an enclosure for it outside and running ducts inside.) Also, finding an ERV designed for
such a small place that is not just a simple through the wall system has proven impossible.
Would love to hear any experiences ya'll have had with similar types of builds. Again, I'm not looking
for the ultimate in quiet and isolation. For comparison, my studio right now is located in a beautiful historic building
that was not designed for a studio, it's an old architects office. Right now I can hear birds chirping, cars drive by,
the air from the vents is the typical level, and acoustically it's not ideal (thought I've put a ton of money in to treating it).
I've been here for 2 years and I've learned to work with it 90% of the time I'm not bothered.
But I'm tired of paying rent when I have a space in my back yard that could easily accommodate me. I want it to be considerably better than what it is now, because if I'm building it I might as well do it right, but it doesn't have to be world class.
I have a local studio designer who will be handling the acoustic treatment, he's just not as familiar with the HVAC side of things.
Fresh air exchange for small stand alone space
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 20934.
Hi there "logjamparty", and Welcome! :)
You really should get one! Without that, how can you determine what your isolation needs are? And without knowing what your isolation needs are, how can you determine what type of wall, floor, ceiling, window, door, or HVAC system you need to build? What dimensions / thickness / density would you need? No way to know, if you don't first know what your isolation needs are. And without a sound level meter, how will you be able to calibrate your system? How will you set your levels correctly? You can't do it by ear, since no human ear has that capability. And how will you calibrate REW, in order to analyze your empty room acoustics, so that you can determine what treatment is needed? If you don't calibrate REW, you won't have accurate results on which your treatment can be designed... etc. You need a meter. They are not expensive. A decent one will cost you around US$ 100 on eBay or Amazon. Make sure it has both A and C weighting, and also both slow and fast response. Stay away form the cheap Chinese junk toys that go for under US$ 50.(I don't have a dB meter, . . .
Monolithic slab on grade? How thick, and how deep?-New slab floor (already laid)
Wood siding over what? There must be some sort of heating behind that.-Wood siding exterior walls
Polyurethane? Soy-based? Something else? Also, I didn't notice any added mass between the siding and the foam...-3.5" open cell foam in stud cavity of walls
What density is the mineral wool?-Second framed wall with 2" mineral wool
Nope. You can't. I often use the analogy that isolating a room is very similar to building an aquarium. With a studio, you don't want the sound to leak out. With an aquarium, you don't want the water to leak out. Building a studio where most sides are really good but one side is very weak isolation, is the same as building an aquarium with three glass walls and one made of carpet... Isolation is all or nothing. If you build a room where the walls are isolated to 50 dB but hte ceiling is only isolated to 30 dB, then the entire studio is only isolated to 30 dB, and you wasted a lot of time, money and effort on those walls: they make no difference at all.no second framed ceiling. (hope I can get away with this!)
An window that isolates is fairly easy to build: All you need is one pane of glass in each leaf, supported in a suitable frame. The glass should ideally be laminated glass, but at the very least it must have the same surface density as the leaf that it is in.-One window and one door. Not sure if I'll frame over the window. It would be cheaper than building an acoustic window, or ordering one, but I think I may miss the sunlight.
And your ventilation system?...? Having a mini-split is a good start to HVAC, as it takes care of three letters, but you are still missing the "V"... which is sort of an important letter, because it is what keeps you alive... no ventilation = no oxygen, and even more important, no removal of the deadly CO2 buildup...-Heating and cooling from a Mitsubishi mini split
I'm gonna need fresh air, clearly.
Do it the normal way: Calculate what air flow rate you need (volume), what air flow speed you need (velocity), and that will give you the duct size. Then design a silencer box for each point where a duct goes through a leaf, and make sure the internal cross section of each silencer box changes suddenly by a factor of at least 2 at the entrance and exit, and that the final run to the registers in the room is long enough to ensure that there is minimal turbulence in the airflow at the registers. Then calculate your total static pressure, and find a fan that can move that volume of air at that speed when facing that static pressure. And make sure that the surface density of the silencer box walls is sufficient to provide the isolation level that you need, which you can calculate onces you have your sound level meter and have taken the necessary readings... :)I'm looking for design ideas that will let me exchange air,
That covers the basics, above. It all starts out with a sound level meter...but I'll be designing and building the fresh air.
No, and Yes. Put your fan outside, as far away from the studio as possible, and get one that is designed to be used outside. Fantech has some decent ones.-Should the fan be on the interior, or do they make all weather fans so it can be on the exterior?
Not only CAN you, but you MUST! You will need a grill that prevents leaves, feathers, papers and large things from being sucked in, plus a mesh of some type that prevents bugs from getting in, plus a filter that stops dust, pollen, and suchlike from getting in. Inspect / clean / replace regularly.-Can I add some kind of filtration on the supply side?
I normally bring in fresh air at the rear of the room, in the ceiling, facing straight down, then put the exhaust registers at the front of the room, roughly above the speakers. That produces air flow throughout the entire room, ensuring good mixing and good replacement rate.-Where is the smartest place to vent from? I'm guessing the ceiling to eliminate hot air.
Not if you design the system carefully. You might want to consider an HRV instead, which is cheaper, simpler, less complicated, and the only moving part is the fans. Not quite as efficient, but still does a very useful job. ERV's are only useful if you have the right humidity conditions.Plus, it seems like an ERV would just run and be really loud (from what I've read they need to be installed in a conditioned space, which eliminated my ideas of building an enclosure for it outside and running ducts inside.)
I'll withhold my comments about a "studio designer" who is not able to to design a studio HVAC system, considering that HVAC design is probably 40% of the entire process of studio design, and also who designs an isolation system for the studio that has no outer-leaf ceiling, when isolation is perhaps another 30% of overall design... I'm just wondering what such a person would actually design! :shock: There's not much left to do, if there's no HVAC and no isolation! Just room layout and basic treatment... Hmmm..... A few more random comments:I have a local studio designer who will be handling the acoustic treatment, he's just not as familiar with the HVAC side of things.
So why did your designer design such complex isolation walls? (Even though he forgot to design the ceiling....)100% isolation from the outside world is not required,
So what on earth is the "designer" actually going to do? Not HVAC, not isolation, and not treatment....Perfect acoustics are not being shot for
... and roughly 300 ft2 to spend it on, implying around US$ 50 per square foot. That's "reasonable but tight", assuming you already have a good isolation shell, and modest requirements for isolation. It's on the low end, but if everything is very carefully designed with minimum cost in mind, it should be possible to do that. Not including the mini-split or gear, of course! - Stuart -(I have roughly 15k USD to work with).