Garage - Practice Room (low budget)

My goal is to soundproof a 12 X 24 garage for my band to practice in. I've done my homework reading this forum, and other pages about soundproofing but I'm sort of confused about a few things. My garage right now is bare with 16inch center studs with the outside wall being some type of particle board (not sure the name of it, but typical stuff found on older homes) and then siding. I will be putting up new vinyl siding including house wrap which might help out (right?). From what I've read I've decided to do the following. Caulk cracks > R11 (Kraft Faced) Insulation (caulked) > RC Channel (Dietrich) > 5/8 Drywall I'm not worried about the garage door now (it's new steel|Insulated|steel) I don't have to much of a budget to get better soundproofing insulation, and I'm not to sure if buying acoustical caulk is going to help me. If needed I could buy more Drywall and put up two layers. Is all this caulking overkill? or wasted time? Also when it comes to finishing the drywall.. would I be taping it and mudding it like normal? or would I be caulking that? Tape or no tape? I'm so confused.. hehe For the ceiling I will use the double legged RC Channel from dietrich, 5/18 Drywall and I'm not sure about insulation. One more thing, I will be running the flexible plastic conduit for power. Besides making sure that's sealed off good.. I haven't read to much about any special ways to run it (if plastic is bad? romex?) Any help would really be appreciated.

Dan, if no one else catches this first I'll get to it by tomorrow night - I leave for work in about 6 hours so gotta go narcoleptic for a bit; sure would be nice if sleep were optional... Steve

I really appreciate your reply. Reading this forum really brings back faith in humanity for me... people really can be nice.. hehe. Thanks

Your plans a certainly feasible. I would used acoustical caulk at the seams instead of mud and tape. (mud and tape is really for the look rather than sound control) Double layers would of course be the best solution. And if you did Double layer and were planning on having the drywall visible then I'd caulk the 1st layer and mud/tape the 2nd layer of drywall. If you can find a dealer for rock wool insulation that would improve your low frequency absorption quite a bit. and if you could stratch to run a 2nd fram of 2x4's that would be even better, but as it stands you plan to do is feasible.

As for caulking should I caulk the studs at the joint where it meets the outside wall? Also then caulk in the insulation.. should I buy acoustic caulk for all the caulking or could I cut corners somehow? I don't have plans on living in this house for to long.. a few years. (Its my first house) Will I need to leave a gap where the drywall meets to caulk? corners? Thanks

Acoustic caulk for the inside (as it is a produc for use with Drywall, On the outside wall, use a silicone caulk or equivalent product. Acoustical caulk was not designed for extreme temperatures. (At least that is how the side of the bottle reads.)

Oops made a mistake, I reread the side of the tube (sometimes u just gotta slow down) it says to not use this product in moist areas (hopefully not your inside walls. and temps not higher than 150 and lower than -55 fahrenheit. Hope that helps. Personally however, i;d still usean exterior caulk for your outer wall shell and the acoustical sealant for the interior structure.

In my opinion talking about which caulk to use is nowhere as important as deciding what to do about the garage door, which I presume from your description must continue to be able to function as a garage door. This means that it is sound leak city. Maybe I should design an 'acoustic garage door' someday and become rich. IN the meantime I am guessing you should try for some sort of very heavy flexible curtain placed while you are practicing and removed when you are done and need to use the garage as a garage. Moving plankets are common, but not teally desinged for the task. Reinforced mass loaded vinyl is expensive but good. One product I have seen suggested as an alternative to mass-loaded vinyl recently is single layer torch applied roofing, available at Home Depot for about $36 per 100 sf roll.

Thanks for the replys... I think I have a few more questions. Should the drywall touch anything besides the RC Channel? Should it touch the ground? or another piece of drywall? (or should I leave a gap and caulk that gap?) When it comes to running electrical outlets, Since the conduit will be running through the studs I probably shouldn't have it touch the drywall in anyway correct? I'm guessing caulk here right?? caulk caulk caulk.. Thanks Dan

Should the drywall touch anything besides the RC Channel? Should it touch the ground? or another piece of drywall?

Leave a 1/4" gap from the floor, corners, ceiling.

Dan Allen wrote:

Thanks for the replys... I think I have a few more questions. Should the drywall touch anything besides the RC Channel? Should it touch the ground? or another piece of drywall? (or should I leave a gap and caulk that gap?) When it comes to running electrical outlets, Since the conduit will be running through the studs I probably shouldn't have it touch the drywall in anyway correct? I'm guessing caulk here right?? caulk caulk caulk.. Thanks Dan

Let two adjacent pieces touch and tape/coat as per any other wall, but leave a narrow gap and caulk at the top and bottom. As to the outlet boxes consider that this is a semi-finished garage and thus go with a surface mounted box rather than a recessed one. That way your hole size is small Either way maybe consider just one outlet and then one of those long power strips like they sell for computer racks.

Thanks for all the replys If anyone cares, I'll start taking pictures.. and let everyone knows how it turns out. Thanks again

I've mentioned electrical before, but I'm still not sure about running the conduit. How should I run it through the studs? Should I run romex through the rc? or drill holes through the studs and run electrical like normal, and then have surface mounted boxes through the drywall?

If you go with the surface mounted electrical, the conduit (cable runs) will be surface mount as well.

Then I run the conduit through the ceiling and drill holes to run it through the drywall? Sorry for not understand.. I'm sorta SLOW!! :lol:

With surface mount electrical, the only penetration of the wall is for the conduit itself, which you closely caulk. then the conduit runs inside the room attached to the wall. In other words you see the conduit. You would avoid this on a finished room, but since this is just a garage it is OK

I really appreciate your replys, thank you so much. Since I'm putting R11 in the walls what should I do about the ceiling? Kraft or unkraft faced? I think I remember reading someone saying R19. Thanks

Here's a couple of links that may help explain - http://www.toolbase.org/tertiaryT.asp?D ... oryID=1402 http://www.wiremold.com/www/commercial/ ... ystem_id=1 Basically, you only bring the WIRE through the wall, not the conduit - the surface mounted wiremold IS your conduit. Residential construction usually doesn't even HAVE conduit installed, the wiring is normally done with Romex, which has either two or three insulated wires plus a ground wire, all inside a common plastic sheath. For your application, you would bring only ONE run of romex from your breaker panel out through the inside wall layer, caulk it well, feed it into this surface mounted tray system (one of the links shows over 50 different components of the system that are available) This way, you only have one small, sealed hole through your inside wallboard. Everything else is mounted on the surface; that way, you don't screw up the integrity of your sound wall. I hope that cleared things up some... Steve

Oh, on the ceiling insulation - put as much thickness as you can afford without compacting it much; it doesn't matter sound-wise whether the kraft goes to the inside or out - moisture-wise, the kraft goes toward the living area (inside, in this case) - Now, what are you gonna do about the garage door? Without fixing that huge sound leak, the rest is useless... Steve

So R19 would be fine? I've finished caulking the inside of the studs to seal any gaps, and the R11 is installed. I started caulking the kraft to the studs.. (I think I read that somewhere) but just to reassure myself that I'm not wasting my time should I continue caulking the kraft to the studs? I'm thinking of investing money into getting some curtains as someone recommended to help with the garage door. Other then that I've been meaning to ask what another recommendation would be. Something not to expensive and something that I could put away after practice. Thanks for the tips on the electrical, I totally understand now. I'm pretty much doing this all myself, and I know that it's going to take me awhile. (the electrical I'll get my uncle to do, since I'll end up burning down the house) I know it's not going to be the best situation to record in, but at least I'll have a place to do so. Eventually I want to run a snake cable from the garage to my room where I have my computer/mixer . Perhaps install some wireless x10 cameras so I can communicate with whomever is in the garage. hehe.. :lol: Thanks again for all the help...

Sorry for all the questions.. but I have one concern. When attaching the drywall to the RC, is it going to be a problem if the screws penetrate the kraft face on the insulation? What should I do to stop that? cut the screws short? buy shorter screws?

Caulking insulation is a waste of time and money - you only need to caulk where there would be a gap in the drywall, or whatever mass you use on walls, ceilings, etc - the goal is an airtight double envelope, with air/insulation between the two leaves of mass. Framing doesn't need to be caulked either - just the wallboard at all joints. RC - doesn't matter if the screws penetrate the insulation or kraft paper - some insulation for inside walls doesn't even HAVE kraft. Main thing is you don't let the screws which hold the wallboard onto the RC, touch the FRAME. This is done by using masking tape everywhere, marking every component of the frame - studs, joists, plates, caps, RC, and wiring - you mark these locations on pieces of masking tape that WON'T be covered up by the construction, so you know EXACTLY where the screws need to go (and where they CAN'T go) If you're doing fully separate frames, don't waste time or money on RC - it's only necessary for single frames with wallboard on BOTH sides of the frame. Gotta get up for work in 5 hours, hope this gets you started... Steve

I finally got the RC in this weekend, and started hanging it tonight. One thing I realized was that it looks as if someone stepped on the RC. I didn't realize that it would be so thin, but regardless there's now a bow in the RC. I can bend it back into shape but will I run into any problems? I have a few questions about RC, should the top of the RC (not the edge that you screw into the studs) touch the studs? Or should there be a small gap between the studs and the RC? In most of the pictures I see there seems to be a little gap, but I think some of my studs are off. Some of the RC touches the studs, where other parts dont.. should I bend it out? One more thing.. I had plans on hanging 4X12 sheets of gypsum horizontally. I started putting up the RC based on 8 foot walls, an inch from the bottom would go the first channel, 24 inches, another channel, 24 inches, another channel.. then an inch away from the top. Now that I think about it, the drywall if laid horizontally will have support in the middle of the drywall and top/bottom. Not really any support in the middle. Should I install the channel based upon how the drywall will be supported? Thanks, Dan

The narrower flat surface of the RC gets screwed into the studs - no other part of the RC should be touching the studs. If the RC is damaged, don't use it. If it's just a small bend, you should be able to straighten it out with care. If the top part tends to touch the stud (The RC fastens to the studs with the wide flat part UP) when you screw through the wallboard and into the RC it should flatten that section, as well as pull it away from the stud at the top, free side of the RC. Putting up wallboard - for a two layer wall, the first layer should go vertical. The top layer should be horizontal. Gypsum has different bending strength in the long dimension, so alternating the orientation makes the wall stiffer and stronger overall. RC should be put up as if all layers will be horizontal - this means RC at 2-3", again at 24", and again at 46" - this handles the bottom horizontal course so you have three fastening points. Then, another RC at 51", then at 72", and again at 93" roughly. If the wall is taller than 8', continue that pattern. Fasten the first vertical layer at all the RC's, using short screws (1") and only HALF as many in each direction as the final top layer. Mark with either masking tape or a chalk line so you know EXACTLY where each and every fastener is - mark this on another surface in the room, so you can STILL see it after you start putting the second layer on - I've covered the rest of this several times, check the Reference links under "complete section" for one, or you can search under "spacer" (without the quotes) - the top layer gets full schedule screws, (If you've not already downloaded the USG manual (reference section) do so, and search under "schedule" - not too many of those, so it will come up as to what screw spacing is) long enough to extend at least 3/8" to 1/2" past the RC - be sure to MARK all the studs along the floor and ceiling, so you can MISS them with your screws through the wallboard and into the RC - just driving ONE screw through the RC and into the stud while putting up wallboard will negate the use of the RC almost totally. If you're doing a 4-sided room, I prefer to put the first layer on East and West (just an example) then first layer on NOrth and South, leaving 1/4" gaps at the perimeter of the wall but NOT between individual sheets - after fastening, pull spacers and caulk the seams - then do the second layer on East and West again, caulk, then second layer on North and South - Before the second layer, mud and tape the first layer - not smooth enough for paint, but smooth enough for no lumps. Wallboard has its long edges tapered for the mud, so if you don't mud and tape you will leave an air VOID, which is NOT good. Check the REference section on walls for more, and be sure to ask BEFORE you do anything if you're not sure... Steve

Sorry, was gonna add this pic as a partial example - doesn't show the two pieces of RC close together where the long edge of wallboard meets though - if you pretend the ceiling is an adjoining wall, the sequence of application is numbered -