Tricky shaped room...

Hi guys, bit of an akward one, but basically I've been offered a space at an already existing studio that seems like it has had a fair amount of money spent on construction (walls are all pretty well insulated, ceiling however needs some work), but not a great deal of thought put into the layout. This is the basic layout of the control room as is: Width at widest point is around 14' and 11' on the narrower section. Length is about 15' 8", ceiling is 8' high. The measurements are more or less right for the sake of this diagram, but unfortunately I didn't have time/help when last I was there to take 100% spot on measurements. I am allowed to add whatever I want inside of the room as long as I don't change any of the original structure, however I see these problems: *Fire door on the bottom left of diagram needs to remain easily accessable at all times. *Narrower section at the bottom presents problems in terms of keeping the room symmetrical *Position of already existing window through to live room (top of picture) also makes it very awkward to keep things symmetrical. *Would ideally like to have space for a sofa/area for clients to sit, but not a deal-breaker as there are other areas in the building for this. This is an incredibly rough idea of the only way that I can think of to make this room both symmetrical and actually functional... I haven't spent ANY time thinking about specific angles or distances, firstly because these measurements are not 100% accurate and also because I have very little knowledge on the subject. The 'proposed' shape is purely a "might something like this work?" I'm guessing probably not... Haha... As far as budget goes, it's fairly flexible. I'm happy to do whatever it takes to get the studo into a workable shape and the project can take as long as it takes to be completed, my question is more of "Is there any possible way that I can make this work?" rather than asking for particularly detailed plan/exact construction techniques, although I would also obviously very much appreciate help with this at a later date once I have further details. I hope this isn't too ridiculous an ask! Thank you very much in advance to anyone who so much as takes the time to read my ramblings... :)

Hi there "Scissors61". Welcome! :) Looks like you got a "fun" shape there!

*Fire door on the bottom left of diagram needs to remain easily accessable at all times.

If that's the case, then when do you show it closed off in your suggested layout? If it cannot be closed off, then how come you are closing it off? And if it CAN be closed off, then that would solve your problem: that would allow you to set up your room facing that bottom wall.

*Narrower section at the bottom presents problems in terms of keeping the room symmetrical

... unless you orient your room to face into that section. Symmetry is only critical for the front half of the room. The rear half isn't so important.

This is an incredibly rough idea of the only way that I can think of to make this room both symmetrical and actually functional...

Except that it isn't symmetrical like that, because you cannot build the wall that you show on there (violates your first rule of not closing off the "Fire door on the bottom left of diagram"), and your head ends up pretty much exactly in the geometrical center of the room, in all of the first order modal nulls... It's also not a good idea to face your room into a corner, for acoustic reasons: you'll find it very hard to deal with your early reflection problems like that. The way I see it, you have three options: one is to face the room into the bottom narrow part, the second is is to build a wall across the "niche" at the top right to make the entire room symmetrical, and the third is to flip your suggestion 180°, so it faces into the convex corner, instead of the concave corner. None is a great option, but all three would work, to one degree or another. Your layout could work too, to a lesser extent, if you really were able to build a solid wall at the bottom, in the place where you absolutely cannot build a wall, and then put some major treatment in the room to try to reduce the modal situation. But that is out of the question, apparently... There's also the issue that building a wall across there (assuming that you are able to do that) introduces the possibility for creating a three-leaf situation, which could trash your isolation in the low end.

I haven't spent ANY time thinking about specific angles or distances, firstly because these measurements are not 100% accurate and also because I have very little knowledge on the subject. The 'proposed' shape is purely a "might something like this work?" I'm guessing probably not...

Well, it COULD work, minimally... assuming you really can violate your own first rule and build that wall, and assuming that it can be massive enough and/or far enough away from the existing wall and fire door to eliminate the three-leaf problem, then you would need to fix the geometry that you are showing for the speaker/mix position relationship, get your head out of the null, put suitable treatment on the first reflection points (which will be hard where the window is), and build a cloud. Once you have the exact dimensions of the room, and clarify the situation with the fire door, please post them here and we'll see if it might be possible to set things up in some way that works. However, give the small size and strange shape of that room, you should not expect that it will be a world-class control room. It can be "good", but it never can be "fantastic" with those limitations, unfortunately.

my question is more of "Is there any possible way that I can make this work?" rather than asking for particularly detailed plan/exact construction techniques, although I would also obviously very much appreciate help with this at a later date once I have further details.

As long as you realize that there will be limitations in what can be achieved in there, then the answer is yes, it can be made to work to a certain extent.

I hope this isn't too ridiculous an ask!

Not at all! Yours certainly isn't the toughest room that forum members have tried to fit studios into! At least you have no curved walls, support columns, extremely low ceiling, staircases in the middle of the room, two-level floors, or other fun stuff like that! With enough money and careful design, yours is feasible, but the acoustic design is going to be a little bit complex if you go with your layout or the "180° flipped" version, or it is going to be "boxy" if you go with either of the other two versions. Fun! :) - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

Hi there "Scissors61". Welcome! :) Looks like you got a "fun" shape there!

Firstly, thank you so much for taking the time to read my post and for all of the help already! :)

*Fire door on the bottom left of diagram needs to remain easily accessable at all times.

If that's the case, then when do you show it closed off in your suggested layout? If it cannot be closed off, then how come you are closing it off? And if it CAN be closed off, then that would solve your problem: that would allow you to set up your room facing that bottom wall.

It can't be closed off unfortunately, there would need to be a secondary door allowing access to it, I did add a second door infront of the existing one in the sketchup model, but must have accidentally printscreened an older version that doesn't have it included. (I guess I save too many versions) My apologies!

*Narrower section at the bottom presents problems in terms of keeping the room symmetrical

... unless you orient your room to face into that section. Symmetry is only critical for the front half of the room. The rear half isn't so important.

This being said then, I guess it would make more sense to block off that right side rectangular portion of the room? The main problem that I see with this would be having the window in an asymmetrical position behind the monitors, would this be a problem? Whilst I can build whatever I like inside of the room, I'm unfortunately unable to change any of the existing structure. I feel like having the desk at the narrow end of the room with the fire door on the right hand side of the desk somewhat limits the desk real-estate, particularly while keeping it symmetrical, which while not the end of the world also isn't ideal...

This is an incredibly rough idea of the only way that I can think of to make this room both symmetrical and actually functional...

Except that it isn't symmetrical like that, because you cannot build the wall that you show on there (violates your first rule of not closing off the "Fire door on the bottom left of diagram"), and your head ends up pretty much exactly in the geometrical center of the room, in all of the first order modal nulls... It's also not a good idea to face your room into a corner, for acoustic reasons: you'll find it very hard to deal with your early reflection problems like that. The way I see it, you have three options: one is to face the room into the bottom narrow part, the second is is to build a wall across the "niche" at the top right to make the entire room symmetrical, and the third is to flip your suggestion 180°, so it faces into the convex corner, instead of the concave corner. None is a great option, but all three would work, to one degree or another. Your layout could work too, to a lesser extent, if you really were able to build a solid wall at the bottom, in the place where you absolutely cannot build a wall, and then put some major treatment in the room to try to reduce the modal situation. But that is out of the question, apparently... There's also the issue that building a wall across there (assuming that you are able to do that) introduces the possibility for creating a three-leaf situation, which could trash your isolation in the low end.

However with the presence of a second door at the bottom, it wouldn't be unreasonably far off mirroring the position of the door on the opposite corresponding side. I'm not HUGELY bothered about isolation as the property is in an industrial area where noise leaking isn't really an issue, and all of the companies around the area don't make even close to enough noise to present a problem for me in terms of tracking, the property is also fairly well isolated from the outside world as is. I sort of realised that my idea was a bit on the 'whack' side, just thought I'd present it as I don't want it to seem like I'm asking for help without putting ANY thought into it myself.

I haven't spent ANY time thinking about specific angles or distances, firstly because these measurements are not 100% accurate and also because I have very little knowledge on the subject. The 'proposed' shape is purely a "might something like this work?" I'm guessing probably not...

Well, it COULD work, minimally... assuming you really can violate your own first rule and build that wall, and assuming that it can be massive enough and/or far enough away from the existing wall and fire door to eliminate the three-leaf problem, then you would need to fix the geometry that you are showing for the speaker/mix position relationship, get your head out of the null, put suitable treatment on the first reflection points (which will be hard where the window is), and build a cloud. Once you have the exact dimensions of the room, and clarify the situation with the fire door, please post them here and we'll see if it might be possible to set things up in some way that works. However, give the small size and strange shape of that room, you should not expect that it will be a world-class control room. It can be "good", but it never can be "fantastic" with those limitations, unfortunately.

As I said before the dimensions aren't 100%, but they should be within about 1/4 of an inch correct, I'm just accounting for the fact I had no-one to hold the opposite end of the tape for me and measuring on the floor was impossible because the room is packed full of items. Realistically, the main reason that I want to set up here is because there is a large-ish live room right next to this one, here is a link so that you can see the building as set up by the previous owners: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.97688 ... 56!6m1!1e1

my question is more of "Is there any possible way that I can make this work?" rather than asking for particularly detailed plan/exact construction techniques, although I would also obviously very much appreciate help with this at a later date once I have further details.

As long as you realize that there will be limitations in what can be achieved in there, then the answer is yes, it can be made to work to a certain extent.

With some treatment I feel like the live space would be well worth the limitations of the control room. My plan is to set up a secondary mix room in my home or something where I have more control over what's going on. So I guess I don't need it to be a "world class" control room, just needs to be suitable for tracking in without me getting any nasty surprises when I later take the files back to use them. The live room and control room already offer a fair amount of isolation from eachother (from what I can see, two leaf construction very similar to what I have seen online as being the best idea for isolation), however with my limited understanding I'm assuming that adding a second pane of glass to the window would make a fair amount of difference? As at the moment it's only a single angled pane which seems strange considering the lengths that appear to have been taken otherwise to set the room up. The other problem is that the ceiling definitely needs some work, it would appear that someone spent a fair amount of time and money building the walls properly and then just skimped like crazy on the ceiling and the window.

I hope this isn't too ridiculous an ask!

Not at all! Yours certainly isn't the toughest room that forum members have tried to fit studios into! At least you have no curved walls, support columns, extremely low ceiling, staircases in the middle of the room, two-level floors, or other fun stuff like that! With enough money and careful design, yours is feasible, but the acoustic design is going to be a little bit complex if you go with your layout or the "180° flipped" version, or it is going to be "boxy" if you go with either of the other two versions. Fun! :) - Stuart -

Thank you so much for all of the help, it is hugely appreciated! At the moment I'm going towards the idea that my money would probably be better spent on improving the isolation between the control/live room and on treatment, I just don't want to rule anything out if there is some way that the area can be improved substantially.