New Portland Studio Build

Hi everyone, I'm moving forward with building my first studio. Found a new space close to my house and the location and rent is great. My current space I'm working in is very large and the rent is high, so this new smaller space is better fit for my needs. I'm planning on using the space for mostly mixing and overdubs, but I still want the space to be able to accommodate tracking a full band. I mostly work on acoustic/folk stuff, but do a decent amount of pop, rock stuff as well. A little about the existing space: It is an open space and used to be a bike shop, so I'm basically starting with an empty box. I have neighbors above me and to the right side of me from the street. The front door goes out to a sidewalk and a street in a quiet neighborhood. Behind me and the other side is a parking lot. The space is basically 40 x 30 with 9' ceilings. I would like to build a front entry way room, control room, small storage/machine room, live room, iso/vocal room, small kitchen room with sink. Bathrooms I don't have to worry about because I have access to some in the main building. My current plan is drawn out and I am currently working with a structural engineer and architect to finish plans and drawings to help with the building permit. My current plan is to build a basic decoupled room design with wood studs 24" on center, double wall design with 1" airspace in between walls. Studs will be staggered until I get close to a window. Double 5/8 drywall with insulation. Not exactly sure what I'm doing with the ceiling yet, but I'm thinking about doing a spring and resit clip design attached to existing joists. I would prefer to not lose too much ceiling height. If you have some better ideas I'm definitely open to anything. Floor is 4" concrete and I plan on leaving that and building floor on top. I have a sketchup design and I'm waiting to get back other drawings from my architect. Any advise and feedback is greatly appreciated. For now I want to make sure my overall design isn't weird in any way. I'm also slightly concerned about the window in the control room and what to do with that. I plan on keeping the window, so it's just a matter of making the best of it. Everything else should be decently straight forward, but feel free to let me know if I need to provide anything else. Thanks so much! Love the forum! https://www.dropbox.com/s/92uvegdly7s25 ... 4.skp?dl=0 -Matt

Hi Matt, and welcome. Please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to be missing a couple of things! :)

The space is basically 40 x 30 with 9' ceilings.

That's a really nice sized space! You can potentially build a great studio in there.

My current plan is to build a basic decoupled room design with wood studs 24" on center, double wall design with 1" airspace in between walls. Studs will be staggered

There seems to be an issue there: Why do you want staggered studs when you are also doing separate frames for your leaves? Staggered stud walls are for situations where there cannot be a separate from for the inner leaf, for whatever reason, but you already said that you will be doing "double wall design with 1" airspace in between walls". so you do not need staggered stud! The inner leaf wall for each room is just a single 2x4 stud frame with drywall on only ONE side of it. Since each room is built like that, as a single-leaf stand-alone structure, there are automatically two leaves between the interiors of any two rooms, and also two leaves between any room and the outside world. If you were to build a staggered stud wall for each room, with drywall on both sides, then you would have FOUR leaf walls, which would give you terrible isolation for low frequencies. You would also have three-leaf walls to the outside world, which aren't quite as bad as four-leaf but still much worse than the correct two-leaf design. If you were to build 4-leaf staggered-stud walls, you' not only get lousy isolation for low frequencies, you'd also spend a lot more money than you need to! But your SketchUp model doesn't show any of that: it would be good if you were to update it with the actual stud framing layout that you plan to use, and the drywall, so we can see exactly what you have in mind, and help you fix it so it will work.

Studs will be staggered until I get close to a window.

Windows are framed exactly the same as the rest of the wall: single stud framing. The framing does not change around windows or doors. If it did, then isolation would be compromised. One of the key principles of getting good acoustic isolation is that surface density of the entire wall must be kept consistent throughout. There should be no places in the wall where the surface density is significantly lower than the rest of the wall, and that includes windows, doors, HVAC, electrical, plumbing, and all other parts. So if you calculate that you need two layers of 5/8" (15mm) drywall on each leaf to get the resonant frequency you need, then your surface density is about 24 kg/m2, so you need to use the same density in the framing around your windows, the glass itself, your doors, your electrical penetration, and your HVAC silencer boxes.

Double 5/8 drywall with insulation. Not exactly sure what I'm doing with the ceiling yet,

The same as the walls! Sound doesn't care about the difference between "left", "right" and "up". If your walls are isolated to one level, but your ceiling isolates less, then you wasted a lot of money on the walls! Sound will just take the easy path out, through the ceiling, totally bypassing the walls. Sound is like water in may aspects: it detours around barriers, and finds the simplest path out.

but I'm thinking about doing a spring and resit clip design attached to existing joists.

Then you could forget about the new stud walls completely, and do the same for those as for the ceiling. Just put the RSIC clips on the existing wall studs, put up the hat channel, and hang your new drywall on that. As I said above, there's no point in making the walls so much better than the ceiling. That's just wasting time and money. If you don't need much isolation such that the amount you need can be obtained from just clips and drywall, then that's what you should do for the complete room. On the other hand, if the amount of isolation you need requires double-framed walls, then that's what you need on the ceiling too.

I would prefer to not lose too much ceiling height. If you have some better ideas I'm definitely open to anything.

There are a couple of techniques that can help to minimize loss of headroom. One is to interleave the new ceiling joists between the existing joists above you. That isn't always possible, since there might be cross bracing, HVAC ducts, plumbing, or other things up there that prevent it. If that's the case, then another really good option is to build the ceiling "inside out", meaning the drywall goes on top of your new ceiling joists, not under it: the joists are exposed to the room where they can be used as part of the acoustic treatment: no height lost at all.

Floor is 4" concrete and I plan on leaving that and building floor on top.

If you have a perfectly good concrete slab on grade as your floor, why would you want to build anything at all on top of it? That's about the best possible floor you can get for a studio! Building something over it can only make it worse, in every way. If the concrete is in bad shape, then maybe lay laminate flooring or ceramic tiles on top of it, but don't do any building! Your floor should be as hard, solid, rigid, thick and massive as you can possibly get it, and it's hard to beat 4" of solid concrete!

I have a sketchup design and I'm waiting to get back other drawings from my architect.

As I mentioned above, your SketchUp model does not show the details of the isolation system you have planned, and that's critical. Also, it does not show which of the walls are existing, which are new, which are load-bearing, which cannot be moved, how they are built, etc.

Any advise and feedback is greatly appreciated. For now I want to make sure my overall design isn't weird in any way.

What is the ratio for your control room? It seems rather long and narrow. Did you check that with a room mode calculator? Also, you are only showing one of the doors for each pair, but you really should show both, to clarify the area that each door sweeps as it opens. Your vocal booth, for example, is impractical in that sense, since the inner door has no place to open into! It would hit the singer and mic as it swings open. Ditto for the kitchenette. Speaking of the kitchenette, it's never a good idea to have anything "wet" that opens directly into the live room, control room or any other acoustic space. Each time the door opens/closes, there's a potential sudden change in humidity in the room, and that can affect both instruments and mics: some are sensitive to changes in humidity, and the tone changes. I always try to keep bathrooms, kitchens, bars, green rooms, and anything else that has water associated with it, outside of the acoustic shell of the studio, where it can't do any harm. Have you considered other layouts?

I'm also slightly concerned about the window in the control room and what to do with that. I plan on keeping the window, so it's just a matter of making the best of it.

That comment suggest that the window is part of an existing wall: if so, is that the inner-leaf wall of the CR, or the inner-leaf wall of the LR? How will you decouple that wall form the rest of the existing structure, so that you can complete the inner leaves correctly? Is it a load-bearing wall? What type and thickness of glass is used in that window? There seem ti be many things that can be improved on with your current design, but at the same time there's not enough detail in your SketchUp model to figure out what you currently have, and what can be changed. - Stuart -

Thanks so much for replying. I apologize for some of the missing information. New here and still figuring things out. :D

There seems to be an issue there: Why do you want staggered studs when you are also doing separate frames for your leaves? Staggered stud walls are for situations where there cannot be a separate from for the inner leaf, for whatever reason, but you already said that you will be doing "double wall design with 1" airspace in between walls". so you do not need staggered stud! The inner leaf wall for each room is just a single 2x4 stud frame with drywall on only ONE side of it. Since each room is built like that, as a single-leaf stand-alone structure, there are automatically two leaves between the interiors of any two rooms, and also two leaves between any room and the outside world. If you were to build a staggered stud wall for each room, with drywall on both sides, then you would have FOUR leaf walls, which would give you terrible isolation for low frequencies. You would also have three-leaf walls to the outside world, which aren't quite as bad as four-leaf but still much worse than the correct two-leaf design. If you were to build 4-leaf staggered-stud walls, you' not only get lousy isolation for low frequencies, you'd also spend a lot more money than you need to! But your SketchUp model doesn't show any of that: it would be good if you were to update it with the actual stud framing layout that you plan to use, and the drywall, so we can see exactly what you have in mind, and help you fix it so it will work.

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure about the staggered stud design and whether that was for single walls or double walls. I'm still learning a bunch about studio design and it's definitely not an area of expertise for me, so I really appreciate the help! This explanation helps a lot! I'm very new to sketchup as well and I'm not quite sure how to show stud framing on the layout. I've got my architect currently drawing up a design that should show the framing. If you have any examples, I can work on it as well.

Then you could forget about the new stud walls completely, and do the same for those as for the ceiling. Just put the RSIC clips on the existing wall studs, put up the hat channel, and hang your new drywall on that. As I said above, there's no point in making the walls so much better than the ceiling. That's just wasting time and money. If you don't need much isolation such that the amount you need can be obtained from just clips and drywall, then that's what you should do for the complete room. On the other hand, if the amount of isolation you need requires double-framed walls, then that's what you need on the ceiling too.

I'm looking for the best isolation I can get for my current budget. Forgot to mention that as well. I'm hoping to keep the overall project under 20k. I'm planning on that covering the build as far as getting the room finished. Equipment wise I am set. Will the same double-framed walls design on the ceiling cause me to lose a lot of ceiling height? I also have cross bracing to deal with in the ceiling. Thanks for your options for ceiling construction. I'm trying to go for the best isolation to keep my upstairs neighbors happy, while attempting to not lose ceiling height. I know it will have to be somewhat of a compromise.

If you have a perfectly good concrete slab on grade as your floor, why would you want to build anything at all on top of it? That's about the best possible floor you can get for a studio! Building something over it can only make it worse, in every way. If the concrete is in bad shape, then maybe lay laminate flooring or ceramic tiles on top of it, but don't do any building! Your floor should be as hard, solid, rigid, thick and massive as you can possibly get it, and it's hard to beat 4" of solid concrete!

Sorry about that! I should have explained myself better. I'm not planning on building a new floor. I'm keeping the concrete because that's great! I was just talking about finishing it somehow with either wood, laminate, or leaving the concrete if I'm into it.

As I mentioned above, your SketchUp model does not show the details of the isolation system you have planned, and that's critical. Also, it does not show which of the walls are existing, which are new, which are load-bearing, which cannot be moved, how they are built, etc.

All outside walls of the box are existing. It's basically a box when I move in, and the outside walls are load-bearing so those cannot be moved. I'm planning on building off of those existing walls on the outside and building in. I will leave the outside piece of drywall, existing 2x4 and build my second wall to create the double wall design. Hope that makes sense! This is just for the outer existing walls. All of the walls on the inside will be new. Same double wall design. If you have an example of how my model should look to help give you a better idea, that would be greatly appreciated! Want to do my best to help you.

What is the ratio for your control room? It seems rather long and narrow. Did you check that with a room mode calculator?

Plugged my dimensions of the CR into a room mode calculator and got a ratio of 1: 1.57 : 2.99 Everything seems to look ok, but I'm still learning the room mode calculator stuff as well. It does seem a bit long and narrow, but that is kind of unavoidable unless I bring the right hand side of the room in (that's if you are looking into the LR). That will make the room less long, but I'm not sure if that's helping anything?

Also, you are only showing one of the doors for each pair, but you really should show both, to clarify the area that each door sweeps as it opens. Your vocal booth, for example, is impractical in that sense, since the inner door has no place to open into! It would hit the singer and mic as it swings open. Ditto for the kitchenette.

Yes! Both doors should sweep open. My model should have two door, but I guess it looks like just one. I'm planning on only having one door for the vocal booth, kitchenette, and into my closet/machine room. Hoping to save a little money there. Thanks for the advice on the kitchenette as well. Unfortunately I can't really move it because of the current sink location. I don't want to have to move plumbing to the other side, so I've decided to keep the sink in that spot. It's not the best option, but I'm sort of stuck with it unless I want to blow a bunch of money on it.

Have you considered other layouts?

This is my fourth layout I have worked on. This is my first time ever designing a studio space. This was also the best design I could come up with given the longer rectangle room. I'm always open to the other ideas as well!

That comment suggest that the window is part of an existing wall: if so, is that the inner-leaf wall of the CR, or the inner-leaf wall of the LR? How will you decouple that wall form the rest of the existing structure, so that you can complete the inner leaves correctly? Is it a load-bearing wall? What type and thickness of glass is used in that window?

Yes, the window is part of an existing wall that goes out side to the parking lot. The window is currently outer leaf wall of what will be the CR. I'm not exactly sure how I will decouple the wall. I was planning on keeping the double wall design idea up to the window. From there that is a great question. That is a load-bearing wall. I'm not exactly sure of the thickness of the glass, but it's not great. Definitely an older, sliding style window. It currently slides from left to right to open. I was thinking of putting the wall that splits the front area and the CR on the other side of the window so the window looks into the entry way but then I'm losing a lot of space in my CR. I didn't love that idea. Thanks for your help! I will keep working to help specify my design ideas. Still learning a bunch here so I apologize again! -Matt