Hey Guys,
I'm finally putting together a dedicated mixing room in a 25' x 50' leased warehouse space. I've put together a few small 12 x 10 rooms with great success but it's time for a commercial space that I can bring clients to as most of my projects now are from online clients. The ceiling appears to be 15' with a few light fixtures hanging at maybe 12'. My funds kind of trickle in so my initial budget isn't big but I plan on a layout that I can add to over the course of a year or so. Here are a few pics of the floorplan.
I want to leave most of the space near the garage door as open/untouched to serve as a lounge area (pool table, TV, bar, etc.) or space for a tattoo artist booth or painter to use. I'll be doing the work with a few friends so I won't have much labor cost. I don't really want to build too much in the space since I don't own it but I don't need anything too fancy to mix in as as long as it's properly treated. Perhaps, if things go well, in six months I may want to build a 10 x 10 room for drums, amps, and vocals.
Since I have to build as funds will permit me to, I will build in phases.
My main immediate concern is a mixing space. A full 20 x 15 x 12 room with double drywall, green glue, high finished ceiling etc. would be nice but also not cheap. I'm thinking of constructing dividing 12' walls to split the room the short way (the red line) and create some type of hallway from the front office back to the lounge area. I'd also have to create another smaller wall with a door into the future booth area next to the office. These walls will only serve to block the view of anyone outside of the walls, not to stop sound transmission. Why? Because the room (if you can call it that) will have no ceiling. Now do I have your attention?
I've been thinking about an open space for quite some time. I've never seen one done the way I'd like to do it. I'm not concerned about sound transmission whatsoever since I won't be recording anything yet. I'll have 3 12' single layer sheetrock walls and the existing 15ft concrete wall in front of the room. I could leave the studs facing inside the room and put the appropriate absorption materials in them and fabricate a big cloud to hang at maybe 12ft above the mix position suspended from the existing ceiling joists. The whole control room will be built on a floating floor with rubber U's, 2x4 joists, and whatever sheet board makes sense before being carpeted with commercial carpet.
In my mind, this is a setup that I can add to over time. I can add a ceiling later if I want to close the room in as well as beef up the outer walls with more sheetrock, green glue, etc. and seal everything up nicely. My main concern is constructing things in a way that won't cut me off from possibilities in the future.
If anyone has any ideas about the viability of this kind of setup please let me know. Thanks.
Warehouse Partial Build
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 19687.
Hi. Please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to be missing a couple of things! :)
actually "properly treated" sort of does equate to "too fancy"! :) If you want the room to be treated so it is neutral enough to mix in successfully, such that your mixes translate well, then that pretty much implies using the specs from ITU, EBU, AES, Dolby, or one of the others. Treating a small room like that to make it into a good control room is not as easy as it sounds...I don't need anything too fancy to mix in as as long as it's properly treated.
That would be bad. Not the building of a room! Building it would be good, of course, but making it 10 x 10 would be a really bad. That makes all of your modes in the "length" direction line up perfectly with all of your modes in the "width" direction, so the modal response will be terrible. Rooms should NEVER have a direct mathematical relationship between any of the three dimensions.I may want to build a 10 x 10 room for drums, amps, and vocals.
:shock: So you won't actually be using it to record anything then? A room with no ceiling has zero isolation, so all sounds from the outside will be picked up by the mics: wind, rain, hail, thunder, aircraft flying over, cars arriving/leaving, doors opening / closing, people talking, phones ringing, toilets flushing, radios, TV.... every sound under the sun will be perfectly captured by the mics, so that room could not be a booth of any type.Because the room ... will have no ceiling.
There's probably a reason for that! :) Maybe because it's not practical?I've never seen one done the way I'd like to do it.
Why bother? If there's no ceiling, then why bother with walls? If the only purpose is to block the view from other areas around it, then it would be an awful lot cheaper to just buy a few bamboo screens for that, or some other type of cheap room divider. Since you don't need any isolation at all, and won't be tracking at all, then basic screens are all you need.. I'll have 3 12' single layer sheetrock walls and the existing 15ft concrete wall
Why? You already have the best possible floor right there: concrete. Why wreck it with a cheap attempt at a floating floor that is domed to failure? You might want to read this thread carefully: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8173The whole control room will be built on a floating floor with rubber U's, 2x4 joists,
No sheet board makes sense, and putting carpet on the floor would take a bad floor and make it even worse. Commercial carpet has no uses in studios, since it does the exact opposite of what small rooms need, acoustically. It doesn't absorb the frequencies that need it must, and it DOES absorb the ones that should not be absorbed.... There's a reason why you never see commercial carpeting in professional studios... :)and whatever sheet board makes sense before being carpeted with commercial carpet.
If all you need right now is a control room, then build only the control room! Leave space for building the other rooms within the acoustic shell (outer-leaf) that defines the actual studio area (excluding the bathroom, lobby, office, lounge, storage, etc). In other words, just complete the outer-leaf that encloses all of the space that you need to isolate (now and in the future), then within that enclosed space build ONLY the control room inner-leaf: do not build the booth inner-leaf at all, until you need it. Just leave the empty area inside the shell, then build that when you need it. Also, you don't seem to be making good use of the space you have with the current plan: The hallway down the side of the CR to get to the office, wastes a lot of space. It would be far easier (and cheaper!) to keep the office at the front, next to the bathroom and lounge. That way, you can just build a single wall across the far end of the space to complete the outer-leaf at low cost.. - Stuart -If anyone has any ideas about the viability of this kind of setup please let me know. Thanks.
Hey Soundman. Thanks so much for the quick reply. After reading the sticky I realized I did skip a few things. My apologies.Soundman2020 Hi. Please read the [url=http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3231][i]forum rules for posting You seem to be missing a couple of things! :)
I say nothing too fancy because I wouldn't even consider building a room without the minimal amount of treatment. As I said, I've done a few small rooms that are awesome and the mixes translate very well. These were done with floor to ceiling superchunk corner traps and OC703 panels on walls and over the mix position. I consider that the bare minimum for any room I would mix in.actually "properly treated" sort of does equate to "too fancy"! :) If you want the room to be treated so it is neutral enough to mix in successfully, such that your mixes translate well, then that pretty much implies using the specs from ITU, EBU, AES, Dolby, or one of the others. Treating a small room like that to make it into a good control room is not as easy as it sounds...
I may want to build a 10 x 10 room for drums, amps, and vocals.
I hear you. I've been reading info on this site since 2009. I'm aware of some of the supposed no no's. I didn't mean exactly 10x10. I meant it more for approximate size reference. Either way, I'm not there just yet.That would be bad. Not the building of a room! Building it would be good, of course, but making it 10 x 10 would be a really bad. That makes all of your modes in the "length" direction line up perfectly with all of your modes in the "width" direction, so the modal response will be terrible. Rooms should NEVER have a direct mathematical relationship between any of the three dimensions.
:shock: So you won't actually be using it to record anything then? A room with no ceiling has zero isolation, so all sounds from the outside will be picked up by the mics: wind, rain, hail, thunder, aircraft flying over, cars arriving/leaving, doors opening / closing, people talking, phones ringing, toilets flushing, radios, TV.... every sound under the sun will be perfectly captured by the mics, so that room could not be a booth of any type.[/quote] Regardless of my post count I can assure you that I'm not really a newbie at this stuff. I actually have had a profile since 2009 but I can't seem to locate my login info. As I said, the room is mainly for my mixing projects. I don't expect to record anything yet in this space. Besides, at 3am, a loud crack of thunder may be just what is needed.Because the room ... will have no ceiling.
I've never seen one done the way I'd like to do it.
Maybe not. That's the point of my post. I'm trying to get an idea of what will work before I waste my time and energy building this thing.There's probably a reason for that! :) Maybe because it's not practical?
. I'll have 3 12' single layer sheetrock walls and the existing 15ft concrete wall
The walls will block outside view as well as serve as the base for my absorption materials. I considered no walls but the thought of me playing music in a 25 x 50ft concrete room gives me the shakes. If I have walls with absorption then I just have to worry about the ceiling. I figure a good sized cloud would help with that. Also, I'm very interested to find out how bass travels in a room with no ceiling. I'm not sure what kind of low frequency absorption would be necessary.Why bother? If there's no ceiling, then why bother with walls? If the only purpose is to block the view from other areas around it, then it would be an awful lot cheaper to just buy a few bamboo screens for that, or some other type of cheap room divider. Since you don't need any isolation at all, and won't be tracking at all, then basic screens are all you need.
The whole control room will be built on a floating floor with rubber U's, 2x4 joists,
Thanks for the link. After reading that and seeing some pics of a Rod Gervais designed studio that sits on one shared concrete slab, I've axed the floating floor idea. Hooray!!! less work for me.Why? You already have the best possible floor right there: concrete. Why wreck it with a cheap attempt at a floating floor that is domed to failure? You might want to read this thread carefully: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8173
No sheet board makes sense, and putting carpet on the floor would take a bad floor and make it even worse. Commercial carpet has no uses in studios, since it does the exact opposite of what small rooms need, acoustically. It doesn't absorb the frequencies that need it must, and it DOES absorb the ones that should not be absorbed.... There's a reason why you never see commercial carpeting in professional studios... :) I didn't mean I would carpet the whole room. I would lay nice hardwood or ceramic tile under the mix position and pretty much anywhere my chair would need to roll and carpet the area behind me, where clients would sit. It's done that way in most of the rooms (Battery, Chung King) I've mixed in.and whatever sheet board makes sense before being carpeted with commercial carpet.
If anyone has any ideas about the viability of this kind of setup please let me know. Thanks.
Thanks. That make a lot of sense. Unfortunately though, the office and bathroom are pre-existing. I have to work around those things. I'll take your advice into consideration. Thanks again.If all you need right now is a control room, then build only the control room! Leave space for building the other rooms within the acoustic shell (outer-leaf) that defines the actual studio area (excluding the bathroom, lobby, office, lounge, storage, etc). In other words, just complete the outer-leaf that encloses all of the space that you need to isolate (now and in the future), then within that enclosed space build ONLY the control room inner-leaf: do not build the booth inner-leaf at all, until you need it. Just leave the empty area inside the shell, then build that when you need it. Also, you don't seem to be making good use of the space you have with the current plan: The hallway down the side of the CR to get to the office, wastes a lot of space. It would be far easier (and cheaper!) to keep the office at the front, next to the bathroom and lounge. That way, you can just build a single wall across the far end of the space to complete the outer-leaf at low cost..