And yet another basement studio project ...

Well I've been racking my brains, as have most novice studio (building) enthusiasts, as to the best way to layout my home studio. Attached (hopefully, never did it before) is a VERY rudimentary gif done with Smart Draw. To spell out my situation, I have a small space to work with (I should say my wife is allowing me to work with :P ). Basically half the width of my basement, about 13' from the underground concrete foundation wall to the lolly columns. I figured I could put one wall on one side, inside wall on other side of columns? The length is flexible, 16'-19' (it's about 16' to the second lolly column shown in the drawing. But I can probably squeeze another 3' or so from the wife - which would put it right to the start of the stairs that go up to the main level, without being under them.) Aside from the back/concrete wall, there is the one already constructed 2x6 wall. On the other side of it is the garage, so there is (for building code) 1 sheet of fire-code sheetrock on either side with R-19 sandwiched between. The other outer walls would need to be constructed, as well as any inner walls. Basically as shown it's a rectangle. The floor is a concrete slab, the ceiling is 8' high, joists, currently R-30 insulated (for building code) with some pipes running THROUGH the joists (none hang below). However, AC ductwork runs under the joists along the back concrete wall (no way to re-route. Hangs down about 14") and there are 2 locations where the AC duct work comes under the joists, near (in drawing) 'top' left and 'bottom' right. Oh, if the vocal booth was put in the "bottom" right, I might be able to squeeze a couple feet extra under the stairs. It's at least 2 feet before the booth ceiling would slope down to 6' or so. Might be a bad thing to do acoustic wise, I've no clue - it's just a thought to possibly get more space. Also, note that the 'two' "walls" shown at 16' and 19' are NOT there - I just wanted to show their possible locations. It's at this point an open 13x16(or 19'!) open canvas! Now, as far as my needs. What I'm looking for is basically a (semi) live room/CR combo, and a (small) vocal room. I want the room as open as possible to be able to practice music with my band, and still be able to use it to record/mix on occassion(of course). Most of my recording is done direct plugging into the console (from amp outs) but I do need a room for doing vocals. I've got no neighbors to worry about, but I don't want too much noise heading upstairs (again, no neighbors - it's my own house; and the room above this location is not really used evenings/nights by my wife or kids - which is when I'd use it most - but the less sound getting upstairs the better.) Any thoughts or design ideas would be very much appreciated. I don't need perfect acoustics or total sound isolation (though I want the vocal booth to be as sound leak proof as possible within cost reason!). But I've been racking my brain for a while, reading posts and learning, trying to fit others ideas into my space, etc. But nothing I've come up with on paper or in my head seems like it would work very well. Thanks for reading all this mess! -Krag

I'll ask the first series of questions that will hopefully get the discussions going. What are you wanting to accomplish with your space? You mention a vocal booth, but not anything else related to what you want to record, etc. If you want to do loud electric guitars or drums the space will need to be handled differently than if you are doing acoustic only music. Have you looked through the Recording Manual that is linked from John's main page (www.johnlsayers.com)? If not, there is a single-car garage plan in there that might be adaptable to your needs (I'm sure John will also help you come up with something specific to your needs, but it is always good to have a starting reference). If you haven't thought much about these questions, now's the time to. If you have, please clarify your wants and then the ball will get rolling. Cheers, Darryl.....

Hi Darryl, thanks for responding. I will be recording mostly my own songs, and demo's for my band and for friends. No comercial use. I want to make the most use of the space I have, and I want to be able to use the main space for live band practicing as well as for a CR. As I believe I mentioned most of my instrument recording is direct into my console from amp outputs, so I'm not really worried about sound problems while recording music. However I will need a clean vocal recording area, hense the vocal booth idea. My latest thought is to reduce the CR/practice area a bit and make the vocal area a bit larger in Sq. footage to accomodate amp's, etc. However as it seems apparent, my space is limited very much so in width (the 12.5' inside walls if built inside the lolly columns) more-so then length (I can get the 19' in length without a problem. If absolutley necessary I'm sure I can squeeze roughly another 6-8' along the back poured concrete wall between the walls and the stairs (roughly 10' wide at that point). I can attach an updated pic. Forgive my lame attempt at using SmartDraw. Again, using that extra space would come at a premium, I'd have to do some serious nice things for the wife! Even then it's no guarentee she wouldn't divorce me for it :) So I''d prefer to stay in the 13x19 area. But as I'm writing and thinking, I can start to see the vocal/small live room taking shape in the extra space nicely! I need to head to work now, but if it's slow once I get in perhaps I'll draw up my initial thoughts for the space and see about getting some input/constructive changes from all of you that have been through this before. It's a joy reading all the posts from so many enthusiasts, professional and hobbiests alike!

Well OK, I managed to work out a layout given my previous drawings and needs. Let me know what you think, or feel free to make suggestions! I understand the control room walls should be symmetrical but not parallel but I'm not sure what the angles should be (if it matters? I'm sure it probably does - everything seems to matter). I just figured I could work the outside walls on one side of the lolly columns, the inside walls on the inside, and stagger them as shown to provide the desired angled walls. Because I want a larger room to be able to practice in with 2 or 3 other people, I tried to work in 2 'angled in' walls on each side (to maintain symmetry). Not positive if it's best the way I have it or reverse the back angles. Sound isolation isn't a huge concern (from sound getting in or out). It's my house, no neighbors, understanding wife. But I don't want sound freely traveling around. Plus I want my mixes to sound as good as possible. In other words, I want to be the weak link in the sound quality, not the room (and that shouldn't be hard because I'm a rank novice). Thanks for looking! ps. Just uploaded a newer version over top of the old.. no need for too many pics I suppose.

I think your basic layout looks fine, with a question or two. I'll let someone with more experience handle the acoustic treatment side of things but I think you're on a good track. I think the overall dimension of the longer control room is definitely more favorable than the shorter version. The one issue I see is the access to the vocal booth. Will you have to go into the house to come back into the booth? That seems kinda inconvenient if there is any other way to get there. You might consider just flipping the control room 180 degrees so the booth is at the back of the room and then you can go in and out through the back wall without taking the long way around. Anyway, hopefully one of the "real" experts will chime in and provide you with everything I haven't thought of. Darryl.....

Hello Ddev, Yea, I'd definitely be more convenient to be able to walk into the vocal booth area. Though all of this is in an unfinished basement and it wouldn't be through any part of the house per se, just out one door, a 25' walk around the corner and the stairs and into the booth. Direct access would be ideal, but the only way I could think to do that would require moving the desk back well into the room (well, 3 or 4' at least further) and putting in a couple sliding glass doors for visability and access. Reversing the room might work, putting the control desk on the left side, leaving the vocal booth where it is. However then my back would be towards the window - might just do away with it under that circumstance. Wonder if I could fit a smaller window or a way to fit a regular sized door on one side of the desk into the room and still keep symmetry (forgive my spelling!) I could probably go with a smaller desk, my console isn't big. I'm wondering if the desk needs to be symmetrical? Like could I use an 'L' shaped desk with one of the leafs along the window - the other coming out into the room? If so I could put a shorter end in front of the window and leave room for a door into the booth. Ideas a plenty, but which ones would work? :)

Your desk can be any shape you want it to be, so your idea of an "L" shaped desk might give you a bit more clearance along the side to provide a path to the vocal booth and allow a door in the upper corner of the control room. The main thing to consider for symmetry is the shape of the room and placement of speakers. Moving back from that front wall a few feet will not hurt things at all (moving your monitor speakers away from the wall is a good thing, actually). Otherwise I think you are on the right track. Good luck, Darryl.....

Thanks again for responding Darryl! Well I'm going to add a new pic here then with some minor changes from the above one. I'm trying to fit the doors into the vocal booth inside the CR/Practice room. I moved the desk back a bit from the wall/viewing window, but not too far. I need the room for rehersing (with at least 2 other people, sometimes 3). I suppose another alternative might be to have a small CR and a larger practice/live room. Thing is I'll probably spend a lot of MY time in the CR recording direct, and I don't like being too cramped. I also incorporated something of an L shapped desk. Not too sure about the monitor placement/door clearance. I also added some rudimentary bass traps, rear wall sound material. -Krag

Well, that's almost exactly what I envisioned. It gives easy access to the booth and maintains good symmetry from front to back, with slightly splayed walls to break up parallelism and it's nasty effects. Now comes the really fun part (figuring out how to build it). Good luck, Darryl.....

I have a couple questions of my own! First off, with the long back wall (illustrated in dark blue) being 8" poured concrete underground, does there need to be an 'outer' wall to the CR, as well as the inner wall (possibly slotted resonators?)? Or could I consider the concrete/ground as a definite mass, perhaps cover it with 2" rigid insulation of some sort, and just build the 'angled' inner wall several inches inside it? If so should the inner wall be a regular 2x4 framed, insulated, and sheetrocked wall (perhaps running parallel to the concrete wall) with 'floor to ceiling' slot resonators inside it making the CR walls non-parallel? Or can I simply eliminate the 'outer wall' as shown in the latest pic and go with the slotted wall, angled? Since the side (long) walls are just that... long... should they be 'broken up' a bit as per my pic with the 'back' door vocal booth entry? Finally, is there a general guideline regarding wall angles, or is simply not having opposing walls be parallel the gameplan? Any other ideas/concerns with what I've come up with so far? Thanks! -Krag

Well I did up a plan in Smart Draw ... should be very similar to the graphic one I have up, but better - more accurate (to a point, I'm still a novice!). Still wondering about wall angles, how much it matters (for the resonators, etc.). Also if there's needs to be a second wall along the back. No worries about sound going in or out from that way. This drawing does NOT have the wall inside the concrete, but instead just the sheetrocked back half, slot resonator front half. Is it better to do both front and back with the slots? Any thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks! -Krag

I think the rear wall should be done the same way John has outlined in the following link: http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm Otherwise, you're now getting to the point where my limited knowledge has reached its limit. Keep bumping your thread if you don't get any other responses for a few days until one of the real experts gets back to look at it (I think a couple of them are on vacation this week from some other stuff I read, so hang in there!!). Darryl.....

I realized I forgot to mention the wall angles. I seems to me that 6 degrees seems to be a common angle (12 degrees total for the 2 sides). Darryl.....

Hey Krag. You are off to a good start. For this to be a useful control room the back hal of your north and south walls (past mix position) should have some kind of absorption. I am not sure what the total depth of your room is (from east to west walls) the pic you have looks like you are doing portable treatments insetad of a permanant build. Elaborate a little bit more on these points for me. Thanks a mil Oh yeah, if it is 19' as you stated you can do a room design similar to Blue Bears control room. (See the lower right hand section of this floor plan) http://www.johnlsayers.com/Pages/Bluebear.htm Bryan Giles

Hey Krag, here is a nother design idea John did last year, note the control room. it may qwork for your needs. Bryan Giles

First off, thanks for the input Bryan! And of course you too Darryl! Secondly, man it's great looking at all these designs and finished products (or in some cases projects)! Course it makes ones mind swim with the possibilities! Regarding the control room design, Blue Bear looks great. My CR space is indeed 19' in length, 12-13' in width. My only issue really is that I need this room to not only function as a control room, but in effect a semi-live room and (possibly more importantly) band practice room(I don't actually need room for a drum set, though it wouldn't be a bad thing to have. My drummer typically brings a small electric set up to rehersals). To that end I was trying to keep the space as open as possible. The plan was to use some kind of bass traps in the back (and possibly front corners), the wooden spaced 'slot' walls on the sides, and I was thinking a wall hanging absorber(diffusor) on the back wall. A cloth covered one, kinda large, sealed/insulated. Saw one John drew up on another section of the site. Looked like a good compromise to keeping the room sq. footage as large as possible. As far as the wall in front of the mix position, I'm not really sure what to do. My problem/issue is having access to the vocal room. I could (and did a design up previously) remove access to the vocal booth from the control room and put the door into it from the back, but that hardly seemed convenient. It would however make it a bit easier perhaps by allowing soffit monitors. Though in doing so (spreading them out) might force the mix position back too far int he room, eliminating a lot of the space I'll want/need to rehersals. Ah .. the trials and tribulations of designing my future playground.

Blue Bears design is comparable to your space and will function for both. Especially with a digital drum kit :) I used a similar setup for recording an album in my MUCHO smaller space. 11x13, it was tight but we survived, you have an extra 6' on me in the rear which really opens it up for your band. Us.. We had a digital kit, Keys, bass and gtr through a Line 6 Pod. We fit and jammed. LOL Bryan Giles

Thanks for the reply Brian. I guess my concern is that I don't have a whole lot of space and I need to use what I have for a couple different pruposes - mixing, some recording (mostly direct in to console), and live practicing. For the latter reason I want the space to be as open/large as possible. I think I will need the decent/small vocal booth/room. The outer walls I've drawn can't be moved to enlarge the room any further then it already is unfortunatley (Or I'd have a bigger space to work with!). I've worked (and practiced) in plenty of small spaces. Though it's always been fine and worked well enough - I'd much prefer, starting from basically a blank canvas, making the best/most use of my space and still being functional. Hopefully my own design accomplishes that. One more question, and I suppose I could do a search to find this out, but I'll ask anyway. For the walls that will be built 'inward', at an angle, I understand about 6degree angles per side is ideal, giving 12 degrees between the two walls of angle. That being the case, any idea what the ratio is in 'length' to 'distance (away from the parallel wall)' equate to the 6 degrees? Meaning if I start on one of the parallel walls building in a slotted resonator that will be 8 feet long, how many feet away from the parallel wall should the other side (of the 8' section) be to give me the 6 degrees? Phew.. hope that wasn't too confusing! I suppose this might be a construction question, but I need to complete the design before I can build, and I'm not sure if my angles are correct. Thanks, -Scott

I dont knoe tyhe rato, if yu do a search it is in an older thread dated back last june/july if I recall. However all CAD style graphics programs allow you to place a wall element ata specific degree angle and that can accurateky give you your measurments. Bryan Giles

Yea.. just came across some measurements on another thread. Forgot to write it down.. back searching again I go! Thanks

I think its roughly 1in/ft. That doesn't give you exactly 6 degress but its close. Also 6 degree splay isn't the optimal, is the minimum. Another idea for your vocal booth access is to put a sliding glass door in in place of the window. That leaves more room on each side available to soffit if you want. I've seen a few studios do it on this site.

kragbax wrote:

For the walls that will be built 'inward', at an angle, I understand about 6degree angles per side is ideal, giving 12 degrees between the two walls of angle. That being the case, any idea what the ratio is in 'length' to 'distance (away from the parallel wall)' equate to the 6 degrees?

My understanding is 1 foot per 10 feet, which comes out to 5.7 degrees... Or: tan<angle> = <distance> / <length> If that makes sense.

Cool. Never knew the equation. Got that one logged. I used to have a book of formulas and equations (about 300 pgs) But then I was 14 and well you know how stuff gets lost. LOL Bryan Giles

giles117 wrote:

Cool. Never knew the equation. Got that one logged. I used to have a book of formulas and equations (about 300 pgs) But then I was 14 and well you know how stuff gets lost. LOL Bryan Giles

:-) It's one of the few things i actually remember from geometry. For calculating angles or distances on right triangles: SOHCAHTOA Sin<angle> = <Opposite length> / <Hypotenuse length> Cos<angle> = <Adjacent length> / <Hypotenuse length> Tan<angle> = <Opposite length> / <Adjacent length> Hope my spelling's right... :-)

Sweet.. thanks for the input. Yea.. now that you mention that.. it sure rings a bell. Course it's been a LOT of years since I did that stuff - and I just don't remember it :) But the 1:10 ratio works for me