Studio design - option anxiety

Hi Guys, I am based in Glasgow, Scotland and have been lurking in the Studio Design forum for some time. I have read Rod's book (several times) along with some other studio building books including one by Mike Shea and F.Alton Everest. I haven't read the Masters Hanbook of Acoustics yet but I now know enough to be dangerous ;-) I have just moved into a new house and want to build a studio in the garden as quickly as possible. There is no existing structure to build in at the moment (just grass) so I literally have an almost blank sheet of paper. I am now suffering from option anxiety as I have too many choices. I actually think this would be easier if had a building that forced decisions on me! I want to move this forward quickly and realise that the best way to do this is probably to employ professional help. I did contact John but his workload at the moment dictates that he isn't available. I have an appointment at the weekend with a local architect to try and get a better handle on the planning requirements and possible building options but don't know if I would be best to use a single company for everything and design the building from the inside out. Although I have minimal DIY skills it is conceivable that, in order to stretch the budget, my son and I could handle studs and gyprock etc once the design is done and exterior shell is completed. M brother in law is a very good joiner (carpenter to our American friends) and while I wouldn't want to ask him to do the work on the cheap (and can't afford his full rates) he would be able to help supervise some of the construction if we decide to DIY some of the build. Firstly, I need input from the group to make sure I haven't overlooked anything stupid and am not stumbling blindly into a disaster. Given the clean sheet of paper, what are my options and what order should I do things? e.g. Do I need to engage an architect first to design a structure and then fit a studio inside or design the studio first and then have an architect design a structure around it? Can I engage one person to do it all? When should I involve planning authorities? There are 4 options for building/locating the studio: 1 - bottom of garden - as far away from other buildings as possible. Garden is nearly 50m long and it should be possible to have the studio at least 25m from any other building. 2 - extension to back of existing house - probably an easier build and less intrusive on the remainder of the garden but harder to isolate sound from family and neighbours. Existing house is Semi-Detached (i.e. adjoining neighbours) and my wife is adamant she doesn't want any building work affecting the house (we built a small extension to the last house and the mess and upheaval drove her mad. 3 - buried underground in garden - would give best sound isolation and greatest available space without affecting garden for rest of family but presumably massively more expensive? 4 - Garden has a slope running downwards away from the house so semi recessed might be an option. The proposed use of the space is entirely personal. I have no intention of using it as a commercial rehearsal or recording facility. I play in various bands from jazz to classic rock. My son is a drummer and my daughter plays sax. My main band is a 10 piece soul band with a 4 piece horn section. It would be great to be able to hold band rehearsals and recordings in the space although I think this will be difficult to accommodate as the dimensions are likely to be limited by budget. It would be good to be able to fit in a 4 or 5 piece rhythm section in the main space with vocals in a booth and the horns in the control room. If we cant find enough space I would pass on full band rehearsals and opt for recording the rhythm section and rehearsing the horns separately over the recordings. Although I am keen to be able to use the space for rehearsals, the vast majority of the time will be spent with me recording my own projects which are primarily guitar based and multi-tracked with me and a guitar/bass in the control room and an amp in the live room. The remainder of the time the space will be a drum practice room for my 14 year old son who thinks death metal bands are too quite ;-) This project started out with the intention of creating a small practice/rehearsal space at the foot of the garden using one of those standardised garden pods (Cedar clad and great big bi-fold doors etc) as several of the companies selling them claim to offer sound proofed options. Fortunately, I read Rod's book and now know enough to know that isn't going to work. Having looked at the websites of lots of these companies who claim to design studios it became apparent that even the "specialist" didn't have a clue about acoustics. Now that I know I am not going to happen the project has grown arms and legs. I had agreed a size with my wife of under 30 sqm (primarily to avoid the need for planning permission) and she now has that in her head as the amount of garden being "sacrificed". On the other hand, I want to build Air Montserrat or Abbey Road in the Garden ;-) I see some compromises up ahead!!!!! One of my biggest questions is how small can I go and still be able to use the space as intended? I know that the minimum size for a control room is generally considered 1500sqft. Given the desired usage of the live room how small do you think is realistic? We are used to rehearsing in a 20m x 10m rehearsal facility which is lovely but unnecessary. The other thing I am deliberating over is whether to opt for the single room option instead of a control room and separate live room? I know Rod says he uses this layout for his own studio. I have a fairly limited budget for what I want to try and achieve so I am ready for making PLENTY of compromises. Current budget is around £50,000 for the structure and sound isolation/treatment. The following photos should give a rough idea of the space I have to work with. Does anyone know any good designers in the Glasgow area? Can anyone help?

Hi there "WheresTheDug", and Welcome to the forum!

I now know enough to be dangerous

Then that makes you fully qualified to build a studio! :) I'm going to give you some quick answers here on the forum, mostly for others who might have the same questions, but I'll also PM you with more details.

Given the clean sheet of paper, what are my options and what order should I do things? e.g. Do I need to engage an architect first to design a structure and then fit a studio inside or design the studio first and then have an architect design a structure around it? Can I engage one person to do it all? When should I involve planning authorities?

First, most architects do get some acoustic training during their studies... but not very much! Over the entire four or five years of their degree courses, they get just a few hours of acoustics, to cover the basics. So I would suggest that it would not be a good idea to let an architect do a studio design. In fact, late last year I was called in by a church that was in the final stages of building their new sanctuary, and had discovered some, shall we say "acoustic oversights" by their architect. The church looked beautiful, but sounded awful and did not isolate. Architects... :) It was a bit late to be calling in an acoustic guy with the walls up and the roof already on ( :shock: :!: ), but that's when they realized how big the problem was. We managed to fix it mostly, but it would have been a lot easier (and much cheaper for them!) if they would have gotten an acoustic guy in at the beginning. So to answer your first question: Get a studio designer to do the basic design and layout for the entire building, except for the service areas (lobby, office, bathroom, green room, storage, etc.) then get your architect to do those non-acoustic parts, pretty up the overall design, check the structural design, draw up the plans, walk you through the local maze of permits and regulations and inspections, and oversee the construction, jointly with your studio designer. Architect and designer should work together as a team. The only time you would hire one single guy to do it all is if there is a local architect who knows the ins and outs of your local building code and other applicable laws, and who is also an expert studio designer with many completed studios under his belt, and happy customers that you can talk to. To be honest, the chances of finding a guy like that are not good... Finally: Should you involve planning authorities? Absolutely YES! You very likely must get permits to do this, and you must get all your inspections signed off properly. That's what you need the local architect for mostly: to walk you through the legal tangle of red tape, in getting those permits and passing your inspections. Every municipality on the planet is different, and they all have strange quirks in their regulations, bylaws, rules, and guidelines, so you need a LOCAL guy who knows the ropes to guide you through that. If you don't have everything fully signed off, then you are letting yourself in for some major legal liability. For example, if you build without permits and something goes wrong, then your home-owners insurance will not cover any of it, and you will be fully liable. Let's say you calculated something wrong, part of the ceiling collapses and injures one of your clients, band members, a friend, or even just a guy trespassing on your property: with no permits, you'll have the wonderful privilege of getting to cover all of their medical bills out of your own pocket, as well as damage to their property (cars, equipment, etc), as well as the cost of your own repairs. There may even be criminal liability in such cases. So yeah, you totally, absolutely, entirely must do this right, with everything correctly documented and inspected, and with your permits duly arranged.

3 - buried underground in garden - would give best sound isolation and greatest available space without affecting garden for rest of family but presumably massively more expensive?

Do you have a big budget for this studio build? If so, then digging a big hole and lining it with concrete is, undoubtedly, the best way to go for incredible isolation. But the issue is money: do you want to go that far? If you want to keep costs down, then this is probably not a good option.

my wife is adamant she doesn't want any building work affecting the house (we built a small extension to the last house and the mess and upheaval drove her mad.

Then it looks like you are stuck with Option #1! :)

It would be good to be able to fit in a 4 or 5 piece rhythm section in the main space with vocals in a booth and the horns in the control room.

:shock: If you value your hearing, then I would do it the other way around! Put the horns in the booth, and do the vocals in the CR.

The remainder of the time the space will be a drum practice room for my 14 year old son who thinks death metal bands are too quite

So this is just a wild guess here, but maybe "extreme acoustic isolation" is something you might be interested in? :) :shot:

using one of those standardised garden pods (Cedar clad and great big bi-fold doors etc) as several of the companies selling them claim to offer sound proofed options.

Yup! And several companies also claim that using their products will make you extremely skinny, Einstein-smart, amazingly muscular, and you'll live to be 150 years old.... :) (Oh, and I forgot "filthy rich"... that too... It seems that Nigeria is the place for getting rich very fast right now! :? )

Fortunately, I read Rod's book and now know enough to know that isn't going to work

:thu:

Having looked at the websites of lots of these companies who claim to design studios it became apparent that even the "specialist" didn't have a clue about acoustics.

Yup. How very true, unfortunately. If their claims were even half true, John and I would be out of a job! :)

I had agreed a size with my wife of under 30 sqm (primarily to avoid the need for planning permission)

Hmmmm... no planning permission needed for 30 m2 habitable space buildings where you live? Are you sure? What about structural? What about electrical? You might find that you don't need permits for non-habitable spaces, such as sheds, storage rooms, pantries, and such, but I'd strongly suspect that for a habitable space (one where people spend considerable time), you probably do need at least some type of permit...

On the other hand, I want to build Air Montserrat or Abbey Road in the Garden

Cool! We can help you do Abbey Road V2! But you'll have to paint your own pedestrian crossing out front, and dress your own mannequins to look like those four guys... :)

I see some compromises up ahead!!!!!

Yep! Does your wife realize how much she is going to be compromising, and how little you are going to? :)

One of my biggest questions is how small can I go and still be able to use the space as intended? I know that the minimum size for a control room is generally considered 1500sqft.

I think you might be confusing floor area (ft2) with room volume (ft3). EBU specs call for a minimum floor area of 320 ft2 (actually, 30 m2), and ITU says 20m2 (215 ft2) with an 8 foot ceiling, the ITU spec works out to a room volume of roughly 1700 cubic feet, which seems to be where the general recommendation of 1500 ft3 comes from.

Given the desired usage of the live room how small do you think is realistic?

Ideally, the LR should have about 5 times the room volume of the CR. That's in order to guarantee that the decay time of the LR is substantially longer than that of the CR, such that you can actually hear the real room reverberation and decay of the LR while listening to tracks in the CR, without it being masked by the natural decay of the CR itself. That's the theory, at least. However, that does NOT mean that you can't build a great studio in a smaller building, or that you can't do great recordings in a studio where the LR is less than 5 times the volume of the CR. John has built an entire studio inside a shipping container! So you can go small and still be good.

The other thing I am deliberating over is whether to opt for the single room option instead of a control room and separate live room? I know Rod says he uses this layout for his own studio.

some people are fine with that. Personally, I find it really hard to track drums and other loud instruments in the same room. I need to be able to hear how each mic on the drum kits sounds, all by itself on the CR monitors, without also hearing the direct sound from the drums right next to me in the same room, or even substantial bleed from them in the other room. I just like to be able to hear what my mics are picking up and nothing else, as much as possible. So I prefer a separate tracking room. I also don't like having to wear earplugs while I am tracking, or heavily isolated headphones: I like to hear the monitors alone, cleanly. But that's just me: other folks are just fine with tracking loud things right next to them.

Current budget is around £50,000 for the structure and sound isolation/treatment.

I'm not sure what construction costs are like in your area, but that sounds like a decent budget for the type of place you are talking about. I predict success, if you do it right! :)

The following photos

:?: :shock: :?: Which ones? I'm not seeing any photos... : ? - Stuart -

Strange.... the photos are showing up now! I guess the forum server is a bit slow in processing photos today... Nice looking place you have there, with plenty of space for a great studio. - Stuart -

Stuart, Thanks for the incredibly rapid response. I like the cut of your jib sir. You clearly understand the issues facing me on this build. While my wonderful, long suffering wife, is very understanding and supportive of the project even she has her limits ;-)

Finally: Should you involve planning authorities? Absolutely YES! You very likely must get permits to do this, and you must get all your inspections signed off properly. That's what you need the local architect for mostly: to walk you through the legal tangle of red tape, in getting those permits and passing your inspections. Every municipality on the planet is different, and they all have strange quirks in their regulations, bylaws, rules, and guidelines, so you need a LOCAL guy who knows the ropes to guide you through that.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am aware of the need to engage planning and obtain any relevant permits. At this stage I was just wondering what order to tackle these issues which your answer very helpfully explains.

I think you might be confusing floor area (ft2) with room volume (ft3). EBU specs call for a minimum floor area of 320 ft2 (actually, 30 m2), and ITU says 20m2 (215 ft2) with an 8 foot ceiling, the ITU spec works out to a room volume of roughly 1700 cubic feet, which seems to be where the general recommendation of 1500 ft3 comes from.

You are correct, I meant 1,500ft3 Cheers Alan