one room studio in chicago, design help

hi everyone. names aaron, i live in the south chicago suburb of lockport. first post. here it go. i have a single room basement recording studio/rehearsal space in my house that i've been using for the last 5 years. as my skills, equipment, and recordings have progressed i find myself pointing the finger at my space as the next and likely most important thing to improve. i probably should have started with the room but was just so happy to have a space when i first bought my home that i couldnt wait to start using it. i've been reading a lot of info on this forum and am on overload with ideas of how to improve my space. im going to try to answer all the required questions in this post, please forgive me if i miss one or two and let me know. my basement was already "finished" upon purchasing the house. it has carpet, with thick padding, over concrete floors. one interior wall that is 2x4 framing with 1/4" painted paneling on the inside of the room and nothing (visible studs) on the outside. which offers almost no isolation from the other rooms in my basement. the other three walls are poured concrete with 2x2 strips attached directly to the concrete and the same 1/4" paneling attached to them. there are 4 glass block windows on the exterior walls. the room has a drop ceiling with dense 2x2 panels and no insulation between it and the floors of my first floor. ceilings are 6' 11". room is 26' 5" long, 10' wide on one half, 11' 2" on the other half. i'll try to include a simple drawing. my band has been practicing in this room for 5 years without any complaints from the neighbors so isolation is not really a concern. i play/record mostly punk/garage rock with the occasional bluesy rock band. either way, loud distorted guitars, drummers who hit real hard. my recording rig is in the same room i track drums in and i usually track guitars/bass in the laundry/storage type half-finished area of the basement. im trying to improve my mixing/listening environment as well as my live drum room, which are essentially the same space. i've read on this site about how to make bass traps, diffusers, clouds as well as making different structures to make my walls seem not so parallel. at this point i just want other's more experienced opinions on what they might do with this type of room as well as a handful of specific questions. i'd like to achieve the illusion of a larger room, make the drums sound bigger, more clarity, better cymbal decay as well as having a more accurate mixing environment so my mixes sound more like they do in my studio on other systems. also, the ability to simply achieve better mixes through a more accurate listening environment is key. so here are some of my specific questions. 1. would it be a worthwhile upgrade to rip out all the 1/4" wood paneling and put in drywall? i plan on doing this with my interior wall anyway as it will also offer more isolation from the rest of my basement where i track guitar/bass cabinets. but should i do this on the interior walls with the poured concrete behind them? could i just put the drywall right over the paneling? i guess what im getting at is, does drywall have significantly better acoustic properties than the paneling? 2. i've read here that a reflective floor is typically more desirable than a carpeted/padded floor. would i significantly benefit from ripping out the carpet and just having concrete floors? in both the drum tracking area and the mixing/listening area or just one of these two areas? and would i be significantly better off if i put in wood or tile floors over the concrete? 3. i plan to put bass traps in the corners behind my mixing desk. should i also put them in the corners behind my drums? what about the corner where my room drops from 11' 2" to 10'? (pictured) 4. what makes better bass traps, superchunk type made of rockwool or owens corning 703 with an air gap behind it? 5. i plan to make some sort of diffuser type clouds hung on an angle over my mixing desk, should i do the same over my drums or make some other type of ceiling treatment or cloud? i had the idea of making several 2' x 2' panels out of wood that i can slip into the drop ceiling grid. maybe skyline type or 2x2's crosshatched with space in between them and 703 above them to give an uneven surface with a partially reflective, partially absorbative effect. again, looking to give the illusion of something better than 7' ceilings. 6. i have a lot of 2" and 4" deep pyramid foam squares on the walls which i have recently read do very little the way i am using them- right against the wall with no air gap behind them. i would like to use them if possible and dont mind building some type of frame to get them off the wall. i had the idea of using adhesive to put them on the surface of diffusers with 703 on the inside. i already have 4 of this type of diffuser i could do this with. though the foam that i have is not very dense. not auralex quality, i've heard the term "foam by mail". i got several industrial size garbage bags full of these squares for like $50 so im guessing its not top notch stuff. i'll try to include pics of my actual room with it on the walls. these are all the questions i can think of at the moment. im sure i will have more eventually. as for budget- i dont plan to do everything at once as i need to continue to use this room during my upgrades. im thinking over the next year i'll do this all a little bit at a time. i dont have a million dollars but i'll estimate that i'm willing to spend $5000 over the course of the year. all your input is greatly appreciated. if you need more info dont hesitate to ask. thanks in advance to everyone who may help. aaron.

no one? did i do something wrong? i think i answered all the required questions and provided all the necessary info. if im missing something please let me know. i'd really like some experienced opinions here so i can start this project properly asap.

Hi Aaron, Stuart is the only very knowledgeable guy to post frequently, so bare with him. I will do my best to help you, as I think I understand enough of it from what you write.

it has carpet, with thick padding, over concrete floors.

Concrete is good, carpet not. Plan for a hard floor.

one interior wall that is 2x4 framing with 1/4" painted paneling on the inside of the room and nothing (visible studs) on the outside. which offers almost no isolation from the other rooms in my basement. the other three walls are poured concrete with 2x2 strips attached directly to the concrete and the same 1/4" paneling attached to them.

You could get a better result, if it was possible to increase the width of your room by rebuilding the wall and making the room less narrow.

the room has a drop ceiling with dense 2x2 panels and no insulation between it and the floors of my first floor. ceilings are 6' 11".

The insulation behind the panels would be really important, but ... wait! 6'11"!!!! That is really not so good! Well, you won't get anywhere near perfect with this sound wise, but if you have to live with this room: if isolation is less a concern, I would do a soft ceiling. I did that with great success with my room. But I didn't need any isolation and my 2.27m ceiling wouldn't allow me a drop ceiling either. But you have to understand, that you won't get good isolation with that. The tile without insulation won't help much either ...

room is 26' 5" long, 10' wide on one half, 11' 2" on the other half. i'll try to include a simple drawing. my band has been practicing in this room for 5 years without any complaints from the neighbors so isolation is not really a concern.

Good! :-)

im trying to improve my mixing/listening environment as well as my live drum room, which are essentially the same space. i've read on this site about how to make bass traps, diffusers, clouds as well as making different structures to make my walls seem not so parallel. at this point i just want other's more experienced opinions on what they might do with this type of room as well as a handful of specific questions. i'd like to achieve the illusion of a larger room, make the drums sound bigger, more clarity, better cymbal decay as well as having a more accurate mixing environment so my mixes sound more like they do in my studio on other systems. also, the ability to simply achieve better mixes through a more accurate listening environment is key. so here are some of my specific questions.

Your main problems are that your room is a very long and narrow one. Pretty similar to mine, but even more narrow. On top you got the lowest ceiling I have ever heard of! :-) Maybe you would do good, to split the room (take a look at my thread) into a mixing and a recording area. You won't get very far with isolation between both rooms, as room in room is not an option here. But I am actually pretty pleased with my results with building a massive two leaf drywall with separate studs! I didn't do proper tests, but has become way better than before (with a flimsy drywall with shared studs and only one door)! Regardless of the isolation, you can create better dimensions for both the recording and the tracking room. The ceiling should acoustically vanish as much as possible, but that will be hard to achieve with the height given. This is actually your biggest problem!

1. would it be a worthwhile upgrade to rip out all the 1/4" wood paneling and put in drywall? i plan on doing this with my interior wall anyway as it will also offer more isolation from the rest of my basement where i track guitar/bass cabinets. but should i do this on the interior walls with the poured concrete behind them? could i just put the drywall right over the paneling? i guess what im getting at is, does drywall have significantly better acoustic properties than the paneling?

As to ripping it out, see before! Bigger width would help a lot! What is helping with isolation is mass, and drywall is by far the easiest an cheapest to achieve this. But I wouldn't bet on any isolation (doesn't matter, if it is needed to your neighbors or the other rooms) without a room in room construction.

2. i've read here that a reflective floor is typically more desirable than a carpeted/padded floor. would i significantly benefit from ripping out the carpet and just having concrete floors? in both the drum tracking area and the mixing/listening area or just one of these two areas? and would i be significantly better off if i put in wood or tile floors over the concrete?

Yes, hard floor is better! You kill to many high frequencies. Hard floor, soft ceiling it is.

3. i plan to put bass traps in the corners behind my mixing desk. should i also put them in the corners behind my drums? what about the corner where my room drops from 11' 2" to 10'? (pictured)

I would change the dimensions of your room first. Then, superchunks in every corner possible will be good for taming the low end.

5. i plan to make some sort of diffuser type clouds hung on an angle over my mixing desk, should i do the same over my drums or make some other type of ceiling treatment or cloud? i had the idea of making several 2' x 2' panels out of wood that i can slip into the drop ceiling grid. maybe skyline type or 2x2's crosshatched with space in between them and 703 above them to give an uneven surface with a partially reflective, partially absorbative effect. again, looking to give the illusion of something better than 7' ceilings.

No diffuser on the ceiling! With your room height porous absorption as much as possible. Diffusers are only interesting for larger dimensions.

6. i have a lot of 2" and 4" deep pyramid foam squares on the walls which i have recently read do very little the way i am using them- right against the wall with no air gap behind them. i would like to use them if possible and dont mind building some type of frame to get them off the wall. i had the idea of using adhesive to put them on the surface of diffusers with 703 on the inside. i already have 4 of this type of diffuser i could do this with. though the foam that i have is not very dense. not auralex quality, i've heard the term "foam by mail". i got several industrial size garbage bags full of these squares for like $50 so im guessing its not top notch stuff. i'll try to include pics of my actual room with it on the walls.

Pyramid foam is interesting to increase the absorptive surface of an area. But that only goes for higher frequencies! That is why you probably don't see it used in professional studios a lot. ;-) what you wanna do is to create some decent low end absorption. That begins to be interesting at 4' thickness plus at least another 4' distance to the hard surface. Achieving this with your side wall could be interesting, cause you only got about 3m ...

these are all the questions i can think of at the moment. im sure i will have more eventually. as for budget- i dont plan to do everything at once as i need to continue to use this room during my upgrades. im thinking over the next year i'll do this all a little bit at a time. i dont have a million dollars but i'll estimate that i'm willing to spend $5000 over the course of the year. all your input is greatly appreciated. if you need more info dont hesitate to ask. thanks in advance to everyone who may help.

The budget will get you the drywall and insulation materials. I am not experienced enough to make a calculation, but it should be enough, if you do a similar build as I hinted at. Of course, you will have to be able to DIY! :-)

thanks for the reply. i really cant increase the width of my space unless i want to rip out a washroom and the stairway to my first floor, so im kinda screwed there. if i take out my carpet and padding i'll probably gain another inch in height making it an even 7 feet. as for isolation between my basement and first floor, i could live without the isolation if i could bet better sound. if necessary i could do away with the drop ceiling all together. this would give me approx 7 feet 3 inches to the supports and another 10 inches to the floorboards of my first floor. this may not look as pretty but i dont care about looks, i care about sound. what do you mean by soft ceiling? im curious. you mention porous absorption on the ceiling due to my room height, how would i achieve this? could i use the pyramid foam to increase the absorptive surface? should it be hung a few inches below the ceiling or maybe between the supports if i were to remove my drop ceiling?