Rehearsal space in a wooden log cabin

Hello I would really appreciate some advice in attempting to create a rehearsal space in a wooden cabin/shed at the end of the garden (The nearest house is 15m away). It would be for an indie/rock kind of setup so drums and guitars etc. I have a budget of £6k-£7k. The cabin itself will cost £3500 including installation and will be on a concrete base and so I have a budget to soundproof as much as possible of approx £3k. The dimensions of the shed would be 5.5m (w) x 3.5m (l) x 2.5m (h) with 45mm wooden walls. It has 2 windows which are double glazed. The floor is 28mm (with a 25mm insulation board underneath) The ceiling is 19mm (with roof felt on top) Link to the log cabin The back and the 2 sides of the shed will be 1m away from neighbouring fences (2m high) The main objective is for the neighbours not to hear the noise we make when they are in their houses if we are making a racket of 110db in the shed. Will the following system give me a decent reduction or am I wasting my time. Build a stud wall (can this be attached directly to the wooden shed wall, or will I need some kind of neoprene pads) Fill stud wall with rockwool (semi rigid slab type, or fibreglass stuff?) Attach acoustic resilient bars Attach 12.5mm sheets of plasterboard (is branded "acoustic" board worth the extra money?) Attach 2nd layer of plasterboard with green glue Skim with plaster Seal all joints with acoustic sealant (is this better than "normal" silicone type sealant) Am I right in thinking the following things that i currently think (along with some other questions) 1. The principle for the walls will work on the ceiling 2. The cabin I linked to can also come with a "dualtherm" option of 2 x 28mm walls with a air cavity of 70mm. This increases the base price by £500 or a "tripletherm" option of the same but filled with 70mm foil-backed polyurethane insulation (base increase of £1000. Am I best of leaving the walls at the original 45mm and spending the extra on better quality soundproofing? 3. That by the houses being 15m away there will be a natural drop of approx 24db? 4. The genie clip system is the same as above (with similar results) but more expensive? 5. Would it be worth adding an extra layer of plasterboard directly to the existing cabin wall (or via neoprene spacers) 6. How am I supposed to breathe 7. I'm a bit stuck on what to do on the windows (secondary glazing) and doors 8. Is this whole project is even possible I've tried to take in to account the fundamental ideas of soundproofing that I've picked up on the web and the great advice I've seen on the forum which makes me think this is possible. I understand that I won't get a soundproof space a meter away from the cabin but if its going to achieve enough of a reduction that it doesn't annoy my neighbours then that is my (realistic?) goal. This site has been a great resource for me and I would really appreciate any advice that's on offer Many thanks Garry

I am not an expert but after seeing your post and noticing your in the UK I thought I would post, before doing anything I would wait for one of the experts to answer though, Firstly is the cabin already built? If not is it a foregone conclusion that you have to have it, as I'm not sure it is £3500 best spent towards a studio/practice room? Without going into detail I was in a similar situation to you, in the UK, neighbours within a certain distance, my sons rock band so 115db+ Before you think to much about the construction of what ever building you decide make sure you are 100% sure on what is going to be acceptable for you and your neighbours as regards noise levels, so an actual db level, one of my sons friends who was in a band use to have practice sessions at his house and in the end they got a local authority noise order against them which is on the property now. Also my sons old band use to practice around there drummers house in a purpose built snooker room, in the garden which to all intense purposes was a small bungalow with full construction the same as a conventional bungalow double glazing etc so probably better than the log cabin you are suggesting on the walls, ceiling and roof and you could still hear the band in the house, not overly loud but enough to annoy the dad occasionly so practices were limited to some extent. I'm not trying to put you off completely but if it doesn't work out it could be a lot of money wasted, is the cabin something you have fixed in your mind because of the aesthetics of it? I'm sure one of the experts will answer your post properly I just thought Id pitch in to maybe save you a false start.

hey Garry, if it's purely a rehearsal space and not intended for recording then at least you don't have to go over the top with the acoustic treatment on the internal shell. that's the good news. at 110db (and thats probably being conservative with amps, bass and drums) any kind of wooden external shell won't get you anywhere near the kind of isolation you need for people to not hear you outside the room. Unless it's possibly 24 inch thick solid oak.

splinterbungee wrote:

Build a stud wall (can this be attached directly to the wooden shed wall, or will I need some kind of neoprene pads)

If you couple the two walls together you will not have a two leaf wall. you will need a two leaf wall....and ceiling. If you aren't sure about what a two leaf wall is then have a look in Johns manual and you'll get the idea. Alsio, think of the ceiling as another wall, it has to be built with the same concepts in mind.

splinterbungee wrote:

Am I best of leaving the walls at the original 45mm and spending the extra on better quality soundproofing?

I think you might be confusing soundproofing (better known as 'isolation') with acoustic treatment.

splinterbungee wrote:

The cabin I linked to can also come with a "dualtherm" option of 2 x 28mm walls with a air cavity of 70mm.

It sounds like this is already a two-leaf construction in itself, and also that these two leafs are already connected. this is not good for isolation (which is what you need). you need two leafs, completely decoupled in a mechanical sense. no nails, screws, bracing, anything.

splinterbungee wrote:

The genie clip system is the same as above (with similar results) but more expensive?

whilst this will help in the kind of coupled two leaf construction that this cabin appears to be, it will still not get you anywhere near the isolation you require.

splinterbungee wrote:

Is this whole project is even possible

yes......is it possible to do it the way you are planning on going about it at the moment.....no. At the moment you'll spend your $7k and end up with the same isolation you would in the spare bedroom of your house. You really need to read through a lot more of the threads on this forum to grasp the details of what you're trying to accomplish. Start thinking more along the lines of a concrete slab, with brick walls, no windows, one door, several layers of marine ply sealed roofing under asphalt shingles and you'll have the kind of external shell you need to START with to rehearse a full rock band in. after that comes the internal build of your two leaf construction.

Stevev has given you some really good advice there similar to what I was thinking, I feel you really need to think hard before having this log cabin built as it could really be beneficial to use those funds in a better way for your outside shell,

Thanks very much for getting back to me After reading through a few threads I thought it might be a tough ask to get the level of isolation I am after. The reason for the log cabin is both aesthetic and value. However as its been noted, it isn't good value if it doesn't do what I want it to do. The cabin hasn't been bought yet but would have thought building a brick building would swallow up the budget before I even started any soundproofing? I think i'll have a proper look into another kind of shell which would fit the budget, if its possible. I have had another look at John's manual regarding a 2-leaf system, which is fantastic. I've got confused somewhere along the line from an article in sound on sound so a bit more research will be in order I think (although it feels like I've been reading up on this for 2 weeks solid). I am completely new to this so I suppose everyone has to start somewhere. Again thanks for the advice, I'm not completely put off yet so i'll probably be back with a few more questions if that's ok Cheers Garry

believe it or not Garry, you're doing exactly the right thing in regards to planning. You're asking the right questions first up, before you go throwing a lot of money at something :D

splinterbungee wrote:

The cabin hasn't been bought yet but would have thought building a brick building would swallow up the budget before I even started any soundproofing?

you're probably right in terms of budget there. It will cost a LOT to build a brick building. What you're missing is that the brick building IS your soundproofing (or part thereof in a two-leaf system).

splinterbungee wrote:

I think i'll have a proper look into another kind of shell which would fit the budget, if its possible.

Whatever kind of shell you build it will need to have a lot of mass. Mass (in a wall or ceiling or floor) is one way of impeding a soundwave from transmitting it's energy to the other side of that (wall,ceiling,floor). Have a search around for material densitys and you'll find brick/concrete to be amongst the highest density and most easily constructed for an external shell.

splinterbungee wrote:

However as its been noted, it isn't good value if it doesn't do what I want it to do.

that's exactly the right way to look at it :D

splinterbungee wrote:

I am completely new to this so I suppose everyone has to start somewhere.

And it's a really great move to start here :D You'll get advice form people who know what they're talking about because they've done it before (and made the mistakes) so you won't have to re-invent the wheel to get the result you want. It won't always be the advice you want to hear but it will be from people who don't want you to throw a load of money at something and not end up with what you want. Be prepared though...you will throw a crap-load of money at it to do it right, which is where I think you might be underestimating your budget. And just to give you a real world example...my studio is an external brick wall shell 110mm thick, then there's an air gap of another 120mm filled with heavy fibreglass insulation, and then there's two layers of 16mm plasterboard (all properly constructed and airtight sealed). If you're standing close to the building you can still hear a kick drum outside....only just though 8)

Similar to SteveV my build is 100mm dense concrete blocks for the outer shell with some of it having a rendered finish for aesthetics when I finish. The internal face of this outside skin of concrete blocks is rendered with waterproof render to seal all the block work and give more mass, I then have timber studs with ply and 2 layers of plasterboard, all filled with rockwool, + I am around 800mm below grade with the floor level all helps with dumbing down the bass :D