The 10X10 Challenge

Hello everyone (anyone), Jason here... I'm new to the forum so hopefully I'm not asking a redundant question. I searched and read the entries before giving up and writing this post. Apologies in advance. :) Before I get started, I am a trained audio engineer/producer with many years experience. Most of my work has been done in either pro studios or home studios that have already been treated. Bottom line is... I didn't have to worry about room acoustics until now. I must say... it's got me scratching my head. I don't even know where to start! On top of that, I have the worst (or better yet, will have the worst) possible space to put a home studio in... the dreaded 10X10 room with 8 feet ceilings. BTW: It's non-negotiable with my Smokin' Hot wife. I tried to talk her into giving up the living room but she just wouldn't have it. I'm stuck with the "Thunderdome"! ;) I've spent many days searching for Blueprints/3D Renderings/Pictures of rooms treated with these dimensions but can't seem to find anything. Someone out there has bound to of solved this problem before. Can any of you shoot me some research links? Thanks!

Hi Jason. Welcome. Please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to be missing a couple of things! :)

I've spent many days searching for Blueprints/3D Renderings/Pictures of rooms treated with these dimensions but can't seem to find anything.

There's a reason for that: There's nothing you can do to treat a bad room acoustically to make it good. All you can hope for is to improve it slightly, but the main issue is the modal response. With perfectly related dimensions like that, the modes all line up on top of each other, reinforcing each other, and leaving huge gaps in the low end where there is no modal support at all. There is no such thing as treatment that eliminates modes: they are a simple fact of life, a direct result of having walls that far apart, and no treatment can change that. The only way to change modes, is to move the walls. So you cannot get rid of modes. What you CAN do, is to damp them acoustically, so they are less prominent, and have less effect on your mixes, but they are still there. So, it all depends what your goals are: if you want a room where you can do serious tracking/mixing then you are pretty much out of luck: it's very unlikely you'll be able to get there. If you want a room just for listening to music, or as a home theater, that might work. I you want a mastering suite: forget it! No way. But there are options open to you: you could probably change the size of the room without too much hassle, perhaps by taking off the drywall from one of the existing walls in the room, then building a new stud frame a few inches away and putting drywall on that. In effect, you'd be moving one of the walls, acoustically. You'd have to play around with a mode calculator to find the best distance for setting up that new wall, but potentially you should be able to get something decent. - Stuart -

Stuart, thanks for the quick response! I read over the forum rules and you are right, I did miss a few things. :shock: Thanks for all the advice. Unfortunately, I'm moving into a rental property so changes to existing walls are not possible however, I haven't committed to anything yet. It may be possible to find another home with a suitable room that will work. I think I will venture down this road and see if any opportunities present themselves. Again, thanks a bunch! Jason

I read over the forum rules and you are right, I did miss a few things.

Yup, you fixed it! :thu: :) If you can't modify the walls in any way, then you MIGHT be able to make it usable by positioning some type of hard, massive acoustically reflective panels in the room, a little away from one of the walls, something like a Gobo. This won't drastically change the modes, but it can re-direct some of them to more useful frequencies, if you are lucky. It's the same principle as a hard-backed ceiling cloud: the angled rigid, heavy panel has enough effect to "break up" the modal energy a bit, perhaps enough make the room usable.

I didn't have to worry about room acoustics until now. I must say... it's got me scratching my head.

:) Don't worry about that! I've been studying acoustics for years, and it STILL has me scratching my head! :) There's many things about acoustics that just don't seem very intuitive at all, and a lot of it doesn't make sense at first, since in reality sound does not actually react the way we think it should. That's why you still see so much myth, half-truths, garbage, and even some downright stupid recommendations floating around the internet, such as the famous egg-cartons on the walls, carpet on the floor/ceiling, floating floors, "magical" products, and other fun things that in reality do far more harm to your room than good, or in the very best case don't have ay effect at all! So please do be wary in your travels around the head-scratching universe of acoustics: there's an awful lot of silliness, and not too much sanity.

I've spent many days searching for Blueprints/3D Renderings/Pictures of rooms treated with these dimensions but can't seem to find anything. Someone out there has bound to of solved this problem before. Can any of you shoot me some research links?

If you are seriously into understanding acoustics, and how to design/build your studio, then I'd suggest two books: "Master Handbook of Acoustics" by F. Alton Everest (that's sort of the Bible for acoustics), and "Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros", by Rod Gervais. And also read John Sayers own work @ http://johnlsayers.com/Recmanual/index.htm Another fantastic resource is the Canadian NRC archive, which has thousands of very useful scientific papers on practically all aspects of acoustics. The only problem is, you pretty much have to know exactly what you are looking for in order to find it, as their indexing and search system is not very friendly. But give it a go: http://nparc.cisti-icist.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca ... rl?lang=en : For example, one of their absolute best (and most famous) publications is "IR-761", which tells you everything you ever wanted to know about how to isolate a studio, using practically any type of drywall construction known to man: http://archive.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/obj/irc/d ... /ir761.pdf They tested something like 300 different ways of building an isolation wall, in an acoustic laboratory, and noted the results for every possible variation. Then there's the same thing, but for floors, the famous IR-802: http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/obj/irc/doc/p ... /ir802.pdf And thousands more just like those. But probably the best one for understanding the principles and equations behind acoustic isolation walls, is the Wyle Report. It's rather old (dating back to 1973) but still very, very valid. Perhaps a bit heavy going too, but it gives you the basis for understanding many things to do with acoustics, not just isolation walls: https://app.box.com/shared/jcaoavdc8g And of course, the single most valuable resource on the entire internet for acoustics as related to studios, is right here, on the John Sayers forum! :) That might sound like a rather daring, pompous statement, but in reality it's not far short of the truth. Even some of the other studio forums will direct you back here for more detailed or more complete information, so there has to be something about this place that is rather worthwhile! :) So feel free to poke around as much as you want, in all the nooks and crannies of the forum: It's a LOT bigger than it looks at first glance, and there's a wealth of information here for you. All for free! :) - Stuart -

Stuart, Sorry for taking so long to respond. Thanks a bunch for all the information you have provided! It's been most helpful. I've been pouring over articles, book, anything I can get my hands on to develop a plan of attack on a new space I've found. The dimensions are much better but it has its own set of challenges. Very soon I will upload my design ideas / budget, etc. and get some feedback from you guys. Talk to you soon!

Cool! It is a very, very good idea to take it slowly, and work through the design phase very carefully. Fixing things on paper just takes a couple of pen strokes and costs you nothing. Fixing the same thing later in real-life might cost you lots of money... :) - Stuart -