Tin Shed Small Studio Construction - Advice Welcome

I am in Australia - I speak in m, mm and vb We have just bought a new house and it comes with a nice colourbond (tin) shed that is 9m x 6m. I have been given permission (by the cfo) to build a multi-purpose room in the back of the shed but there are some limitations: - Needs to be a man-cave style place that I can watch footy etc in with my mates - Needs to look nice and potentially house drunk mates over night - Needs to also house live PA gear, lawn mower, wheel barrow and oter garden stuff - Needs to be presentable (not full of rubbish!) - Need to keep vaulted ceiling if possible So I've come up with an idea for a room that I believe will fit the bill. The CFO is also a musician that respects my want to have a little studio and does let the purse strings go a little but seeing as we have just bought a house we don't have a huge budget. Usage: Vocals / Acoustic Guitar / Digital Piano / Hand Percussion - Possibly Electric Guitar / Definitely Drinking Beer Dimensions: I have looked at Bolte and Sepmeyer but can't get a ratio that is spot on. What I have is a vaulted ceiling 2400mm > 2800mm - (L)4200mm x (W)5400 - This gives me a ratio of 1:1.75:2.25 Wall Construction: I do not need complete isolation as this is just a little home project studio. I want to keep as much internal volume as possible so from reading here I'm thinking: Colourbond > Gyprock (10mm) > Stud Wall > Gyprock (10mm) - Not sure whether the cost of RC is worth it - but will consider with more advice. I understand the M-A-M concept and was wondering whether the colourbond shed would act as any kind of mass? Having a hard time convincing the CFO that I should plaster both sides :) Stud wall will be staggered with 90mmx45mm studs with 90mmx45mm top and bottom plates. Polyester batt Insulation will weave through studs for both acoustic and thermal protection. I will also look for appropriate caulking for joints. Absorption - I have already built 6 broadband absorbers 1200mm x 600mm with Tontine Acoustisorb 3 (50mm). I am looking at using standoff brackets to insert a 50mm air gap behind them. I will also be ordering another 3 sheets (1200mm x 2400mm) of Acoustisorb 2 at 100mm to build more traps. For bass trapping you will see the traps in the image below. Trying to fit a little function in the form a downlight will be built into the top box with a surround speaker or item of interest (guitar pedals etc) placed on each 'pedestal'. (Just a bit fancy) The 100mm Acoustisorb 2 will slide into the box vertically in channels (see pic) with the option for more if need be. I will be building these boxes as stand alone units that can be removed if we ever move house. I will also add optional absorption at the bass of the bar - I will be building the bar so should be no hassles. I don't really know what the best course of action is with the ceiling. Not sure what insulation to use etc - do I just replicate the walls? The apex of the vaulted ceiling runs straight down the centre so I was considering making 3 clouds of 2400mm x 1200mm x 50mm - 2 would follow the natural contour of the ceiling, the 3rd would run down the middle and sort of flatten the apex. I'm kind of at a loss for doors - any help here is much appreciated :) Also not quite sure about heating / I've seen a bit about those Aeropac units and think that might be a viable option. It's just the beginning but all opinions and comments are most welcome Just realized my SU file is way too big to post - any help? Cheers! Pete

So after a lot of reading on this site I have come to the conclusion that: a) 10mm Gyprock just won't work - 16mm Fyrchek is the stuff but it is way too expensive. Looks like my goals have changed somewhat and I have to be realistic about the fact that isolation is not going to happen on my budget (<$2000 AUD). Oh well, I still love reading the threads on here - maybe one day when I'm a rich man :)

Hi there Pete, and Welcome! :) I was about to answer your initial post, but then I saw your second one:

Looks like my goals have changed somewhat and I have to be realistic about the fact that isolation is not going to happen on my budget (<$2000 AUD). Oh well, I still love reading the threads on here - maybe one day when I'm a rich man

Don't give up so easily! Have you looked at other alternatives? While 16mm fire-rated drywall is generally the cheapest, that's not true in all places on the planet. It might turn out that 16mm OSB, or 16mm plywood, or 16mm MDF, or 12mm fiber-cement board, or even something else is cheaper where you live. Look around, and see what you can find. Also look at the "waste" section of your hardware store: I one picked up an entire pallet of drywall at less than half price, simply because a careless fork lift operator had banged one corner into a wall, so every sheet had a broken corner. Who cares? Cut the edge off every sheet, used a few more sheets, a bit more work, but saved a bundle! I have also heard of people going to construction sites and picking up "overs": the excess drywall sheets left over that can't be returned because there aren't enough to make it worthwhile, or damaged, or dirty, or whatever. No use to them, so they usually just dump them :shock: They'll be happy to have someone cart them away... So be creative! Look for alternative materials that have the mass and rigidity you need, and look for alternative sources / options. - Stuart -

Thanks for the encouragement Soundman 2020 - I will keep my eyes peeled and see what I can come up with and I'll definitely post pics which ever way I go. Probably the hardest part for me as a musician is not being able to record music. I love mixing music (just for fun) but I really love writing and recording so to not have a space at the moment is driving me nuts. 14 days till I'm in the new place - COUNTDOWN!!!!

Just a quick pic of what I was planning. Now investigating alternate wall materials :P Also wondering whether the outer leaf could be 10mm and the inner 16mm? Just trying my hardest to reduce my costs :)

hey mate, good to see you're trying to get the right ideas sorted outed before you even move in to the place. smart move :D

petesguitar1 wrote:

I understand the M-A-M concept and was wondering whether the colourbond shed would act as any kind of mass?

The colourbond shed won't really act as mass but it will act as a leaf, so I'd be looking to beef that up somehow if it's possible. Then you'd be building a stud wall inside of that and fully decoupled from it, with you plasterboard on the stud wall. I know the fyrcheck is expensive but it's really the best way to go in OZ. I looked around at a whole heap of options for my build and it came out cheapest in the per sq/m vs effectivness stakes. getting an idea of how much isolation you'll need to start with is something to sort out before you figure out what kind of build you need. If you're planning on wailing the elec guitar at 1am after a skinfull and you're on a 1/4 acre block without a lot of studio-isolation then you'll have the neighours calling the cops instantly. If it's more acoustic guitars at 1am (after a skinfull) then you won't need the same kind of build :D

Hey Steve, I'm much more in the Acoustic guitar after a skinful frame of mind :) It's relatively suburban but my goals are pretty simple. I had the chance to go out to Bantam Studios today and learnt a heap. 16mm Frychek for sure and a couple of other things to consider :) I'll definitely post pics as I go!

It has been an interesting few months since moving into a new house, floating 2 mortgages while we tried to sell the place and life with a small child who can now run, open doors and turn on lights! But now some light at the end of the tunnel - Thanks to Soundman2000 I've kept going :) I have started demolition of the old room that was in the shed and working on reclaiming the timber. As I thought, it was partially insulated, not sealed and tied to the steel frame with tech screws. There were also a lot of dead mice in there :( It had some pretty poor dimensions (l)2740 x (w)3080 x (h)2300. Smaller than what I would like.The first price I got on the 16mm Fyrcheck 3000 x 1200 sheet was $48 - Now with some creative emailing and price matching I'm going to be able to get it for $36/sheet - Much more reasonable. If I reclaim some of the timber from the old frame I can save a bit more there too. If I use a double wall construction (16-90-50-90-16) I will lose a significant amount of space in my little room so I think I'm down to single stud with resilient channel (16-90-30-16) or staggered stud construction.I'm going to aim for internal dimensions (l)5100 x (w)3500 (h)2200 1:1.6:2.3 After reading some of Rod Gervais' book I'm also wondering about mass and whether adding a layer of 10mm to the inside would be of benefit or a waste of time/money? My thinking is that if I put the 16mm on the outside and inside and do 75% of what I need, i could potentially get scraps form local building sites to beef up the inside before painting. We have a lot of houses being built in our area so a slab of beer could get me quite a bit of raw material but none would be 16mm. So the questions: How much space is recommended between double wall studs as a minimum? How well does resilient channel work compared to staggered studs with all other things equal? How well does steel frame stack up to timber frame? Forgot to add, I found some insulation that had been used (yellow fibreglass) as well as another product that is like a really light version of acoustisorb - I'll post pics when I can. Not sure whether it is legit or just rubbish. There is so much info on the internet I can see how people get confused :)

petesguitar1 wrote:

so I think I'm down to single stud with resilient channel (16-90-30-16)

if i'm reading that correctly you'll be having a layer of 16mm fyrchek on one side of a 90mm stud, 30mm resilient channel and 16mm plaster on the other side. All of this inside your colourbond garage? I'm pretty sure you'll get better isolation if you change your layout to a 90mm stud wall (decoupled from your colourbond) and stick the two layers of 16mm on the inside. Thus creating a two-leaf system between your plaster and colourbond and eliminating the resilient channel. Make sure you fill the gap between the plaster and colourbond with insulation of around 30 kg/cubic meter for fibreglass and 50 kg/cubic meter for rockwool.

petesguitar1 wrote:

I found some insulation that had been used (yellow fibreglass)

I'm pretty sure that stuff comes in at around 10kg/cubic meter and won't be of any use to you.

petesguitar1 wrote:

How well does steel frame stack up to timber frame?

I believe a steel stud will get you a slightly higher TL. John has the numbers in the manual. cheers, Steve

Hey thanks Steve, might have saved me from a pretty major design mistake :) So If I'm understanding I would just build a standard stud wall (90x45) not touching any part of the shed except the floor and then line the inside with 2 16mm Fyrchek with Green Glue between the sheets. If so, you just made my life a whole lot easier! 1) What sort of distance should I have between the Colourbond and the studs? 2) Any thoughts on the best insulation (brand) for this purpose? Is it possible to get polyester? The shed from outside - I'll be building in the rear third bay It's a bit messy at the moment but this is what I have reclaimed. Roof Construction Wall construction Any comments are more than welcome :)

Another little bump in the road but I am forging ahead. Got my plasterboard today (16mm fire rated) but I only have enough for 1 layer. With my past experience in a 10mm room that was tied to the frame I think this plan will still go pretty well. Now onto the framing.

petesguitar1 wrote:

So If I'm understanding I would just build a standard stud wall (90x45) not touching any part of the shed except the floor and then line the inside with 2 16mm Fyrchek with Green Glue between the sheets

correct. and GG will really help your isolation if done correctly and in the right quantities. your ceiling needs to be the same construction as well.

petesguitar1 wrote:

1) What sort of distance should I have between the Colourbond and the studs?

this is a cas of bigger is better, but if you had over 100-120mm in which you could loosely sit your insulation without compressing it then that would be great.

petesguitar1 wrote:

2) Any thoughts on the best insulation (brand) for this purpose? Is it possible to get polyester?

I used bradford soundscreen in 100 (or maybe it's 110mm) batts. You'll get them from Skinners in ballarat (which is where I got mine). I believe you can get polyester in higher densities, but i'm not sure if anyone has the gas flow resistivity numbers for them (which is what makes them work for isolation purposes). I also believe you pay an arm or a leg or maybe both for them in the higher density. (not that soundscreen is cheap either) :shock:

petesguitar1 wrote:

Got my plasterboard today (16mm fire rated) but I only have enough for 1 layer.

Well, that rules out green glue as well. :( The advantage is that you can do a single layer of 16mm with your insulation in the cavity and see what sort of transmission loss you come up with once you're done and sealed. If that gets you over the line with the TL you need then you're done :D If not, it's still pretty easy to put another layer of 16mm over the top. The only decision you'd have to make with putting a second layer on is whether or not to use GG. good luck with the framing and keep the pics coming :D

Thankyou so much for the reply mate that is awesome. I might check out the soundscreen and maybe just suck it up and buy it. Any more details on Skinners? (I don't know them)

type 'skinners ballarat' into google and you'll get the details you need :D ask for Liam and tell him Steve from dog & bear studio in Trentham put you onto them.

Another question here - what about thermal insulation / acousticon for the roof? Should I line the roof with reflective insulation first for thermal or will the soundscreen be enough?

Ideally you would have had sarking put in when the roof was installed. Probably a bit too much of a pita to do it 'post construction'. The Soundscreen has fantastic thermal so no probs there. steve

Another question here - what about thermal insulation / acousticon for the roof? Should I line the roof with reflective insulation first for thermal or will the soundscreen be enough?

What does you r building code say about that? If you can, then I would. Better thermal insulation means that the HVAC system won't have to work so hard to keep the temperature under control. - Stuart -

stevev wrote:

If you can, then I would.

I agree with you there Stuart. It'd be a big job to pull the colourbond off to put the sarking in, but the condensation build up over the life of the building will end up being a problem. You won't find a colourbond roof in australia with a plasterboard internal ceiling (built in the last 20 yrs) that doesn't have sarking installed.