Studio Build in San Francisco

First of all i would like to thank John and Co., and all of the people on this forum that share their knowledge and creativity with others. My name is Ben. I am a record producer/ songwriter/ engineer I am converting a 21'x20' garage and 12.5x10' adjacent bedroom into a control room/iso booth. I need as much real estate in the space as possible so i kept the design fairly simple. Can I please have some feedback on my design? in terms of A. Acoustic response of control room design. B. Room shape, wall angles. C. Any and all ideas that will make this place sound and feel incredible. I tried to use the most symmetry friendly listening position in the room. sitting 38% back I plan to build a cloud over head. Cover reflection points with 2" panels. Use Bookshelfs and Diy Diffussion/ Bass Traps in back of room.

Hi Ben, and welcome! :)

Can I please have some feedback on my design?

You are wasting a lot of space by splaying so much o your side walls. All of the area behind those walls is lost and wasted. And since you are not soffit-mounting your speakers, there's no reason at all to angle the front wall like that. It would be far better to make the front wall as straight as possible, then splay only as much of the side walls as you really need to, which is generally only as far back as the mix position. Are you attempting to make this a true RFZ design?

I am converting a 21'x20' garage and 12.5x10' adjacent bedroom into a control room/iso booth.

I see the control room, but I don't see the iso booth. Is it the room at the back, behind the CR?

A. Acoustic response of control room design.

What are the final inner-leaf dimensions of the control room? I don't see those on the diagrams, only the overall dimensions of the garage. Did you check those dimensions in a room mode calculator, to make sure that there are no glaring issues, and that you are close to one of the good ratios?

B. Room shape, wall angles.

See my comments above, but also the strange angled "closet" at the right rear of the control room might be an issue. Did you ray-trace that to make sure there won't be any nasty refelctions off those surfaces?

Use Bookshelfs and Diy Diffussion/ Bass Traps in back of room.

Are you sure the room is big enough for diffusers? It looks like it might be borderline for that. - Stuart -

Hey Stuart Thank you for your feedback. All great stuff. I attached an update floor plan with dimensions.

Can I please have some feedback on my design? You are wasting a lot of space by splaying so much o your side walls. All of the area behind those walls is lost and wasted. And since you are not soffit-mounting your speakers, there's no reason at all to angle the front wall like that. It would be far better to make the front wall as straight as possible, then splay only as much of the side walls as you really need to, which is generally only as far back as the mix position. Are you attempting to make this a true RFZ design?

I was attempting to make this a true RFZ design, without soffitt-mounting. although I am not sure how to calculate room dimensions for modes in a room with splayed walls and irregular shapes. How do my angles look now? download/file.php?mode=view&id=50291

I am converting a 21'x20' garage and 12.5x10' adjacent bedroom into a control room/iso booth. I see the control room, but I don't see the iso booth. Is it the room at the back, behind the CR?

yes , iso booth is that room in the back. It is not ideal to have artist behind me but, this mix position gave me the most room symmetry.

A. Acoustic response of control room design. What are the final inner-leaf dimensions of the control room? I don't see those on the diagrams, only the overall dimensions of the garage

. see attached drawing... Did you check those dimensions in a room mode calculator, to make sure that there are no glaring issues, and that you are close to one of the good ratios?

B. Room shape, wall angles. See my comments above, but also the strange angled "closet" at the right rear of the control room might be an issue. Did you ray-trace that to make sure there won't be any nasty refelctions off those surfaces?

i have never been sure what to do with that awkward corner with exhausting furnace and water heater for house. I would like to add a storage are in there somehow. Ideas? What is a ray trace?

Use Bookshelfs and Diy Diffussion/ Bass Traps in back of room. Are you sure the room is big enough for diffusers? It looks like it might be borderline for that.

Down the road when studio is built i was going to fine tune back room treatments. Ideas? Why is diffusion bad in smaller rooms? Thank you Stuart

although I am not sure how to calculate room dimensions for modes in a room with splayed walls and irregular shapes.

Use the average room dimensions, and plug them into a room mode calculator, such as these: http://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm http://amroc.andymel.eu/

I was attempting to make this a true RFZ design, without soffitt-mounting.

It's really hard to get a true RFZ room if you don't soffit mount. If the speakers are on stands inside the room, then you get all the usual artifacts that mess up the direct sound (SBIR, comb filtering, phasing, edge diffraction, etc.): So you can't have a true RFZ like that, since you will, by definition, be getting the phased, comb-filtered, edge-diffracted reflections of the angled sections of the front wall, coming directly at your head, and mixed in with the direct sound.

yes , iso booth is that room in the back. It is not ideal to have artist behind me but, this mix position gave me the most room symmetry.

Any chance you can move the HVAC closet out of the CR? That is also messing up your room. Also, you have not completed the outer-leaf around that room: right now, it is in your air MSM cavity...

What is a ray trace?

Ray-tracing is the technique for determining if you actually have a refelction free zone, or not. Basically, you draw lines leaving the acoustic center of your speakers, and project them out in all directions, at all angles, to see where they go. When they hit a hard surface (wall, floor, ceiling, desk, window, door, soffit, etc.) then you calculate the angle or incidence and angle of reflection, and draw another line at the correct angle, to show where that "first reflection" will go. If it gets close to your ears, then you have to change the angle of the surface where the ray hit, until the reflection no longer gets close to your ears. "Close" means about 50 cm or so.

Why is diffusion bad in smaller rooms?

Diffusers based on numeric sequences do not scatter sound evenly in all directions, either in time or in space. You need a certain distance between the diffuser and your ears to allow the uneven "lobes" produced by the diffuser to merge with each other, and produce a smooth, even diffuse field. That distance depends on what frequencies the diffuser is tuned to: D'Antonio and Cox originally said that you need at least three full wavelengths of the low cutoff frequency of the diffuser, but later research suggests that the effect of a diffuser extends down to at least one octave below the cut-off, and a better distance is 7 full wavelengths of the lowest frequency, and no less than ten feet, regardless of the frequencies. So if you have a diffuser where the lowest cutoff is, for example, 500 Hz, then you need to have your head at least 16 feet away (4.8m). If the cutoff is 1000 Hz, then you would need 8 feet, but the minimum is ten feet (3m), independent of frequency, so you always need at least that distance between your head and the diffuser, no matter what. So diffusers are not appropriate for small rooms because you can't get our head far enough away from the diffuser to ensure that you are hearing a true diffuse field, with no artifacts, even if you tune your diffusers very high. You only have about 6 or 7 feet between the rear wall and your client seating (labelled "producer desk" on your diagram). You seem to have about 14 feet from the mix position to the rear wall, so you could possibly have diffusers tuned down to about 600 Hz without affecting the mix position too much. That's why I said your room seems to be "borderline": it might be possible However, the positions where you have your diffusers are not correct: that's where you need to have your bass trapping. In fact, there is no broad-band bass trapping at all in your room as shown now! :shock: That needs fixing, for certain. It will be very boomy and unbalanced like that, with major modal problems, and the decay will be way too long for a control room. There's also no first-reflection point treatment. I also noticed that it is a 5.1 room, which brings a whole bunch of other problems with it, and it's not clear that you are dealing with those. Plus, your center speaker is not placed correctly: it is closer than the others. Why? Are you planning to use delay on all the other speakers to compensate for that? You could also splay less of the side walls: you normally only need to splay as far back as the mix position, so you could gain some extra room volume like that. - Stuart -

Thank you stuart Very helpful indeeed

Construction is going very well indeed I need some flooring advice Garage has somewhat unlevel concrete My builder wants to glue down soundboard and then put sleepers for leveling Then plywood then laminant, luxury vinyl, or bamboo I need to give the ok soon and pick the flooring And i have no idea how to go about it All i know is that i want it to sound good and look clean and bright Thoughts?