New Studio Build, Hello!

Could you post the actual MDAT file? It's hard to tell from just a few graphs. - Stuart -

I sure can. https://umd.box.com/s/ewon9lz1xi1ghs8ecvwg This has all the measurements that have been taken to date. Beginning with. Baseline, Roxul in corners, Finished Rear, Clouds, "meaning two clouds are hung". Thanks, Allen

Nice! Pretty impressive improvements at each stage! It looks like you still need some more treatment for the mid-highs, around 4k (actually, from about 2k to 8k), but your lows and mids are coming under control nicely. There's also an early reflection that appeared after you installed the clouds, so you might want to adjust the angle on those clouds to get rid of that. What's next? :) - Stuart -

Thanks for taking a look. Can you tell me how you determined the early reflection point after the cloud, so that I know what to look for after making some adjustments? Also what do you suggest for the 2k-8k range? Just some more panels on the walls? I was concerned about a dip at around 525? Does this look like a problem? I am in the process of laminating my desk now, should have it done by the weekend, then start hooking things up! Allen

Well, I'm all wet then. Or in light of the unnecessary expense, I should say I took a bath on that one!

Can you send a couple of photos of that cloud, and the room in general? That would help. The additional path length is about 44" (in other words, the reflected sound is taking a path about 44" longer than the direct sound) so one way you can do this is with the "string trick". So measure the distance from the acoustic center of your speaker right speaker (NOTE! "Acoustic center!"), to the tip of your measurement mic, add 44" to that measurement, and cut a piece of string that long (or make it a bit longer, so you have some extra to attach the string at each end). Attach one end to the acoustic center of your right speaker (masking tape works well), and attach the other end of the string to a mic stand set up exactly at the point where the tip of your measurement mic was. So there's now a "sag" in the middle of the string that is exactly 44" longer than the direct path. Now carefully move that sagging middle part of that string around the room, to see exactly where it touches "something": It will only touch one thing in the room, since there is only one reflection there. My bet is that it touches some point on the cloud. Mark that point, then take a photo so that I can see where the mark is. It's a fairly strong reflection, so my guess is that it is something hard, such as the wood frame of the cloud. There's a second reflection worth looking into as well: this one only affects the right speaker, and the path is 100" longer, so repeat the same procedure with another piece of string, 100" longer than the speaker-mic distance.

Also what do you suggest for the 2k-8k range? Just some more panels on the walls?

Yes, but it needs to be heavier and thinner than what you are doing so far. I'd suggest one inch thick panels of OC-705 would be good, pressed up tight against the wall (no air gap behind). 703 is too light for such high frequencies, so it has to be 705. 1" USG Thermafiber (4pcf) would also work.

I was concerned about a dip at around 525? Does this look like a problem?

It is most likely some type of SBIR artifact, or it could be something to do with reflections off the desk or console, or something else like that. It's not modal, and is likely positional, so I'd wait a bit on that one, to figure out what it is... it might even improve from the other treatment along the way. It has always been there, and only changes slightly with the treatment you have done so far, so I don't think it is cloud-related. But you might get lucky, and find that it goes away when you reposition the clouds! - Stuart -

I did the string trick you suggested and the only hard surface that the center of the tape hits is the floor. I haven't put the desk in the room yet as I am still finishing it. With the extra 100"s coming off the right speaker the only hard surface that the center is touching with equal distance between the tape is the right wall, which has no treatment, but either does the left. Kind of perplexing.

Then it probably is the floor! :) To double-check, put something soft and thick at that point on the floor, such as a soft blanket folded over a few times, or a large pillow, or something like that, then do a REW test with that in place, to see if the reflection went away. If so, then you are probably OK, as the desk will kill that. The desk will add it's own issues, but at least it will take care of that one! :) - Stuart -

Hey, thanks a ton for looking at my readings, it is much appreciated! Can you tell me what graph and reading specifically it is that is telling you about the reflection so that I will know what to look at when I do the next reading with something soft on the floor to see if it went away. I also seem to be having a hard time finding 705 in one inch thickness. Are two inch panels going to be ineffective for the 2-8k range or should I cut them in half? I'm hoping that the additional mid-high treatment will take care of the 100" reflection. Allen

Can you tell me what graph and reading specifically it is that is telling you about the reflection so that I will know what to look at when I do the next reading with something soft on the floor to see if it went away.

It's on the "Impulse" button, which shows the impulse response of the room. (You can also see it on the "Filtered IR" button: same thing). Turn on the "ETC" curve, turn off the others, then smooth it just a tad, at 0.1ms, and switch the graph mode to show %FS instead of dB FS. Zoom in as necessary so you can see just the first 50ms or so. You'll see somthing like this: The first spike (at time=0ms) is the actual impulse itself. The second one (at time=3.18ms) is that reflection we are talking about. There's another smaller one 7.48 ms, which is your 100" reflection. You are probably right about that being the side wall, so that one will disappear when you put your first reflection point treatment on there. Those are the two "biggies". There's other stuff in there, but not worth looking at yet, until you get your desk in and some more treatment done.

I also seem to be having a hard time finding 705 in one inch thickness. Are two inch panels going to be ineffective for the 2-8k range or should I cut them in half?

Here's the specs for the 700 series of products, from Owens Corning: Take a look at the differences in the properties for 1" and 2" 705: The 1" stuff absorbs practically nothing at 125 Hz, and pretty low at 250 Hz, and absorbs really well above 1kHz, whereas the 2" stuff is significantly higher in the low end. You don't want more absorption in the low end: you need it up around 2k and up. Both the 1" and the 2" do well up there, but the 2" also takes too much out of the low end. If you can't get 1" 705, then you'd actually be better off with 1" 703, than with 2" 705. I wouldn't suggest trying to split a panel of 705 in half: that might not be so easy! :shock:

I'm hoping that the additional mid-high treatment will take care of the 100" reflection.

It does seem to be the side wall, so I'd expect that one to die once you get your absorption on the first reflection points. - Stuart -

One other thing. You said: "the only hard surface that the center is touching with equal distance between the tape..." It doesn't have to be the center of the tape! It could be at any point along the tape... All that the graph tells you is that there is a path that is 44" longer than the direct path, but the actual point that is causing the reflection could be close to the speaker, or close to the mic: Not necessarily the same distance from both. Yes, it is likely to be the same, but not guaranteed: only high frequency sound acts like light rays, bouncing off surfaces at the same angle it arrives. Lower frequencies act more like expanding spheres, and less like rays, so the reflection point could be some other place in that case. All you know for sure is the distance of the increased path length. So see if the tape will hit any other points in the room. I doubt it, but it's worth checking, to be certain. - Stuart -

Ya, I did check other to see if it would hit other things and it will touch the cloud in multiple places, but everywhere it touches it is on the fabric and not on a hard surface. My ceiling is angled as the studio is RFZ, the cloud follows the angle of the ceiling and is not hard backed, can't really adjust the cloud other than possibly moving it a 1/2" closer to the ceiling which would be a huge pain to accomplish. I'm really hoping its the floor and the wall. I In the grand scheme of home studio design would you say I'm looking pretty good? Thanks again! Allen

Ok found a place with 1" 705 and ordered 4 2x4' panels to start with, should be here in the next few days, in the mean time I got the rest of my laminate to finish my desk hopefully this weekend, I will post some pics of it today.

Here some desk build pictures, just have desktop left to cut and laminate and then I'm in business.

Beautiful desk! great work!

Thanks man! Can't wait to finish it and put in the studio...

Thought I would add some pictures of the finished product. I put up some 705 panels per Stuarts suggestion to tame some of the 2k-8k stuff. Also, when I put the desk in the room it took care of the early reflections that Stuart noticed which were apparently coming off of the floor. I have tracked some drums, bass and guitar and I must say it sounds fantastic in there! I could not be happier with the way the room has turned out! I have installed the NS10s but having had time to hook them up yet or re-shoot the room since putting them in there, I don't think they are going to be an issue as far as room acoustics are concerned though. Thanks so much for all of the advice and inspiration that I have received by being part of this community. I do not believe I could have achieved such a high caliber room without it! Thanks a ton to Stuart! Allen :yahoo:

WOW! been following your work and your room came out awesome! Great work, enjoy!

Thanks man! I started construction on it around the first week of December 2013, and built it completely by myself with any spare moment I had. There were times when I thought I would never finish it and or unsure if all of the work would be worth it in the end, especially in regards to isolation. But in the end I am able to play a full acoustic drum kit with live bass and guitar at 2 o'clock in the morning and nobody else in the house can hear it! Allen

" I am able to play a full acoustic drum kit with live bass and guitar at 2 o'clock in the morning and nobody else in the house can hear it! " oh man that's great! you gave me lots of motivation with that comment

THUNK! That's the sound of my jaw hitting the floor... WOW! I mean !WOW! Allen, that is one great looking studio. Really, really nice. A job well done. Congratulations! It takes a lot to impress me, but I have to admit your place impresses me! So it's now at the top of the "finished studios" list, where it deserves to be: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5842&p=40923#p40923 You more than met your isolation goals, and your control room acoustic goals, and you did a knock-out job on aesthetics and build quality, so I'd say that's a pretty darn successful build! :thu: :yahoo: :!: - Stuart -

WOW BACK AT YOU! That is awesome! I can't believe made the list! Not only is it nice to look at, but the functionality is insane! I have been playing/recording music for over 20 years now and never had a room like this and I can't believe that I do now! It's just inspiring to go into! Thanks once again Stuart! Your help on my project has been invaluable, the time you take to help people out is really something else! :thu: I have learned SOOOO much about studio construction/acoustics here! I tell everyone about this place and how helpful and knowledgeable the community is! I love this place! :o

Hey Allen, Your build has been an inspiration to me, and I'm sure to others. Thanks so much for providing the pictures and updates along the way. I recall on my last build seeing people say how much it helped them stay motivated and I was a little unsure how anyone could ever lose motivation, but having gotten married and had a family since then I realize that it's not so much a question of motivation, but rather life just getting in the way sometimes. My build has been on hold for the last 6 months or so and I'm only now just getting back here, but was so pleased to check your thread and see that you're complete and with such fantastic results. I'd love to come take a nose around sometime and ask a few questions as we had discussed a while back if I may so cheeky. We have friends in Gainesville that we visit quite regularly, and it's really not too far from Leesburg. I am so encouraged by your results - especially given that our house is quite similar it seems, and I was a little skeptical that I would be able to achieve late night drumming in this house given how much the sounds seems to easily travel through the floors and walls. Just goes to show how these approaches work if you follow the details to the tee as you have done. So wishing you a very Happy New Year, a very well done, and I'll shoot you a PM with my cell #. All the best, Andy

Great Thought! How long it takes to complete this new studio?

I have learned so much about studio construction :D [PITY YOU DIDN'T LEARN NOT TO BE A SPAMMER. BLOCKED AND BANNED: :D - BY MODERATOR]

amac2673 wrote:

Alright! Finally finished beefing up and sealing the outer leaf! What gigantic pain in the --- that was! I laid out my walls and got the first built and temporarily tacked up last night. Hopefully will be finished framing this week, going to try and do a little after work each night but we'll see how that goes. It's really HAPPENING!!!

Hi Allen, I'm hoping you're still around to answer a question I have about your beef up. I noticed recently while studying your beef up pictures back on page 4, that there was one pipe that runs perpendicular to the joists (presumably a gas pipe?) that was not enclosed in a soffit. I was wondering what the reason for that was. I have a similar gas pipe that I've been wondering if I shouldn't try to re-route since it spans multiple joist bays just like yours. Many thanks and hope you are well, Andy