Ok, so my first upload for my studio design was wisely ignored, because it was crap. I didn't know what I was doing and it showed. Now, I know a little more what I'm doing, thanks to some extensive reading and good advice from others. So I'm submitting another version of my layout, in hopes of getting some input about how I'm going about things so far.
Exterior walls are double stud with 2 layers of 5/8 drywall inside and out, batt insulation in between. Floor will be a laminate over subfloor, all on a 5 inch concrete slab on grade.
Ceiling is about 9 ft over the control room and 10 ft over the main room, it slopes up ward from the top of the drawing to the bottom.
Control room is based on 1 x 1.14 x 1.39
Dimensions are given in inches as well as ft/in for those who don't want to divide by 12.
Thanks for your input...
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/guitargypsy/Studio-Plan-A.jpg
Studio Build in Texas - take 2
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 18633.
Hi dentonstudio, in order to help you with the building you have to provide a lot more informations (read the rules).
Anyway, i think that's a nice space :D you can design something more comfortable, read this:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/Recmanual/Titles/Plans.htm
"Things to avoid are:
Having to go through the studio to get to the control room!! (I hate this because you always get interuptions as people move in and out of the studio)
Creating studios with no visual communication. There is nothing worse than recording someone you can't see.
Big studios with a small pokey control room and visa versa."
Ok, sorry I think I addressed most of the 'rules' in my earlier post, but not here. To reiterate, I'm in a fairly quiet neighborhood, 100 ft from my house and 50 ft from the closest neighbor. but I want to be able to record drums at 3 am if necessary, so I'm looking for walls with an STC of around 60 or so and I think the double stud wall design will accomplish that. This will be a semi-pro studio in the sense that it will be a viable and important source of income but I also have other jobs that bring home the bacon, although if I could transition to this I wouldn't be disappointed. My budget for materials for the whole project is about $5-6,000 USD, and I'm hiring a contractor to do most of the labor. I'm a musician, not a carpenter and while I will supervise I really don't have the time/skill to do most of the labor. I'm in Denton, TX, USA. There is communication between the CR and rest of facility through two large windows. Walking through the studio to the CR is most likely unavoidable. I think I'm going to try to enlarge the CR, based on feedback from a few others, to at least 1500 cubic ft. Thanks for your thoughts...Hi dentonstudio, in order to help you with the building you have to provide a lot more informations (read the rules). Anyway, i think that's a nice space :D you can design something more comfortable, read this: http://www.johnlsayers.com/Recmanual/Titles/Plans.htm "Things to avoid are: Having to go through the studio to get to the control room!! (I hate this because you always get interuptions as people move in and out of the studio) Creating studios with no visual communication. There is nothing worse than recording someone you can't see. Big studios with a small pokey control room and visa versa."
I think that you have enough space to design the rooms in a more comfortable way, look at other layout here in the forum or here http://www.johnlsayers.com/ i'm always fascinated by his projects.Walking through the studio to the CR is most likely unavoidable.
I'm with you!! :thu:I think I'm going to try to enlarge the CR
Hi there "dentonstudio", and welcome!
Did you post under a different name the first time? right now, I'm only seeing two posts from you, and they are both on this thread!Ok, so my first upload for my studio design was wisely ignored, because it was crap.
Sounds like a pretty decent basic plan. Does that building already exist, or will you build it from the ground up? Id building from the ground up, doesn't have to be that shape, or could you modify that a bit?Exterior walls are double stud with 2 layers of 5/8 drywall inside and out, batt insulation in between. Floor will be a laminate over subfloor, all on a 5 inch concrete slab on grade.
The slope in the live room doesn't matter, but it does in the control room! THe ceiling should be lower over the speakers, and higher at the back. From what you say, it would be the other way around in your room. You should probably try to fix that.Ceiling is about 9 ft over the control room and 10 ft over the main room, it slopes up ward from the top of the drawing to the bottom.
Cool! Then I can multiply by 2.54 to get cm! :)Dimensions are given in inches as well as ft/in for those who don't want to divide by 12.
Right! 60 is pretty high, but can be achieved. The weak points will be doors, windows, and the HVAC and electrical systems.so I'm looking for walls with an STC of around 60 or so and I think the double stud wall design will accomplish that.
If it might eventually be a fully commercial studio with paying customers, you should probably take into account the legal requirements for people with disabilities, such as ramps instead of steps, wider corridors and doors, wheelchair accessible bathroom, and suchlike. You won't be able to get a permit to use it as a commercial facility unless it meets those requirements.This will be a semi-pro studio in the sense that it will be a viable and important source of income but I also have other jobs that bring home the bacon, although if I could transition to this I wouldn't be disappointed.
Sorry to sound harsh, but your budget is on the low side, and unrealistically so. You have something like 900 square feet there, so you are budgeting just US$ 6 per square foot for materials. I would guess you'd need about 4 or 5 times that amount for materials. Just the HVAC system alone is going to eat up half of your budget, more or less, and your doors and windows are going to eat up the other half. Figure the drywall cost: you have about 130 linear feet around your perimeter, meaning 33 full sheets of drywall, but you are doubling up on that for the outer leaf (correctly) and then doubling again for the inner leaf, so you need 132 sheets of 5/8 fire-rated drywall. Plus another 56 sheets for your ceilings, and allow 10% for wastage: total 206 sheets. At around 10 bucks per 4' x 8' sheet, there goes 2 grand, just in drywall. Then add acoustic insulation, studs, nails, screws, hundreds of tubes of acoustic caulk, electrical materials, roofing materials, trusses, the slab, flooring (800 sq.ft of laminate is at least another US$ 2,500), inspection fees, etc. And that doesn't even consider the labor costs, which can easily be as much as the materials, if you have to hire everyone from several disciplines framers, drywallers, electricians, HVAC installers, roofers, painters, etc. Then comes your acoustic treatment, which can easily cost another several thousand dollars. You are way under budgeting. To get a more realistic budget, call a few contractors in your area and ask for their flat rate per square foot for building a detached garage or home theater. Add about 25% to that, and that will give you a good idea of where your budget should be. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket here, but trying to do this without having the right budget in place is only going to lead to major disappointment. I would suggest re-thinking your budget, or planning to do this ins several stages, as more funds become available in the future. For example, just build the Control Room for now, then do the live room later when you can afford it, then the booth and other rooms further down the line. Etc.My budget for materials for the whole project is about $5-6,000 USD, and I'm hiring a contractor to do most of the labor.
- Stuart -Right! That's about the minimum volume for a "critical listening room", according ITU and EBU specs. It would be worthwhile sacrificing some of the live room to get a bit more space in the CR.
Thank you!Hi there "dentonstudio", and welcome!
No, I just deleted the earlier post with the bad design.Did you post under a different name the first time? right now, I'm only seeing two posts from you, and they are both on this thread!
The building and the slab already exist, currently with a corrugated metal exterior wall, and it is on the corner of my property, thus the slightly odd shape.Sounds like a pretty decent basic plan. Does that building already exist, or will you build it from the ground up? Id building from the ground up, doesn't have to be that shape, or could you modify that a bit?Exterior walls are double stud with 2 layers of 5/8 drywall inside and out, batt insulation in between. Floor will be a laminate over subfloor, all on a 5 inch concrete slab on grade.
I'll work on that!The slope in the live room doesn't matter, but it does in the control room! THe ceiling should be lower over the speakers, and higher at the back. From what you say, it would be the other way around in your room. You should probably try to fix that.Ceiling is about 9 ft over the control room and 10 ft over the main room, it slopes up ward from the top of the drawing to the bottom.
Yes, I know we Americans are the only ones committed to a non-metric system. I don't understand why either.Cool! Then I can multiply by 2.54 to get cm! :)Dimensions are given in inches as well as ft/in for those who don't want to divide by 12.
Right! 60 is pretty high, but can be achieved. The weak points will be doors, windows, and the HVAC and electrical systems.so I'm looking for walls with an STC of around 60 or so and I think the double stud wall design will accomplish that.
Thank you that's good to be aware of.If it might eventually be a fully commercial studio with paying customers, you should probably take into account the legal requirements for people with disabilities, such as ramps instead of steps, wider corridors and doors, wheelchair accessible bathroom, and suchlike. You won't be able to get a permit to use it as a commercial facility unless it meets those requirements.This will be a semi-pro studio in the sense that it will be a viable and important source of income but I also have other jobs that bring home the bacon, although if I could transition to this I wouldn't be disappointed.
You are neither harsh nor a wet blanket. This is why I am posting in forums with people who know much more than me. I have a certain amount of money set aside but could spend more if I needed to, within reason. I already have quite a bit of lumber left over from a previous studio build at my previous home so that will cut some costs there. I. did not include HVAC with the budget numbers mentioned above, minor oversight (I was thinking it, just forgot to include it and yes it will be about $2500). The guy who I am hiring will do everything for one daily rate. I have a friend who is a licensed electrician who will rewire everything for free. My plan is to put laminate flooring in the live room and the isolation booth, and the brand that I will use is what I put in my house, which is about two dollars per square foot so I'm probably looking more at $1000. I haven't decided about the control room yet, I was thinking some cheap carpet but some people have frowned at that. Thanks very much for your input! One additional question: as I mentioned, the current exterior wall of the building is corrugated metal. Would it be worth putting a layer of sheet rock on the inside of that wall or would that violate the mass–air–mass system that I am using for the double stud interior wall?Sorry to sound harsh, but your budget is on the low side, and unrealistically so. You have something like 900 square feet there, so you are budgeting just US$ 6 per square foot for materials. I would guess you'd need about 4 or 5 times that amount for materials. Just the HVAC system alone is going to eat up half of your budget, more or less, and your doors and windows are going to eat up the other half. Figure the drywall cost: you have about 130 linear feet around your perimeter, meaning 33 full sheets of drywall, but you are doubling up on that for the outer leaf (correctly) and then doubling again for the inner leaf, so you need 132 sheets of 5/8 fire-rated drywall. Plus another 56 sheets for your ceilings, and allow 10% for wastage: total 206 sheets. At around 10 bucks per 4' x 8' sheet, there goes 2 grand, just in drywall. Then add acoustic insulation, studs, nails, screws, hundreds of tubes of acoustic caulk, electrical materials, roofing materials, trusses, the slab, flooring (800 sq.ft of laminate is at least another US$ 2,500), inspection fees, etc. And that doesn't even consider the labor costs, which can easily be as much as the materials, if you have to hire everyone from several disciplines framers, drywallers, electricians, HVAC installers, roofers, painters, etc. Then comes your acoustic treatment, which can easily cost another several thousand dollars. You are way under budgeting. To get a more realistic budget, call a few contractors in your area and ask for their flat rate per square foot for building a detached garage or home theater. Add about 25% to that, and that will give you a good idea of where your budget should be. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket here, but trying to do this without having the right budget in place is only going to lead to major disappointment. I would suggest re-thinking your budget, or planning to do this ins several stages, as more funds become available in the future. For example, just build the Control Room for now, then do the live room later when you can afford it, then the booth and other rooms further down the line. Etc.My budget for materials for the whole project is about $5-6,000 USD, and I'm hiring a contractor to do most of the labor.
Right! That's about the minimum volume for a "critical listening room", according ITU and EBU specs. It would be worthwhile sacrificing some of the live room to get a bit more space in the CR.
Don't forget the underlay! That could cost a few hundred dollars more.My plan is to put laminate flooring in the live room and the isolation booth, and the brand that I will use is what I put in my house, which is about two dollars per square foot so I'm probably looking more at $1000.
Add me tho the list of people who frowned on it! :) They are all correct. Carpet is not much use acoustically, and in fact it does the exact opposite of what you need. It absorbs high frequencies very well, mids somewhat, and lows not at all. You need to absorb massive amounts of low, some mids, and no highs. So installing carpet is fighting against what you should be doing. Forget that: Bare concrete is actually a great floor surface for a studio, and if you look around the forum you'll see some really cool things people have done with that, such as staining it artistically, polishing it, etc. It can look great if done well. If yours is in poor condition (cracked, chipped, uneven, rough, etc.) then that might not be an option, or also if you just don't like the look of concrete! In that case laminate flooring is good, and so are ceramic tiles, linoleum, and other similar hard, reflective surfaces.I haven't decided about the control room yet, I was thinking some cheap carpet but some people have frowned at that.
With a tin outer wall you probably don't have much choice: you'll probably need to build a three-leaf system, which isn't optimal for low frequency isolation, but is your only real option. The tine will be your outer leaf. So just pretend the tin isn't there, and build the studio as a proper fully-decoupled two-leaf MSM system next to that. You can do your "middle leaf" on the same framing as the tin, if it can handle the weight, or on separate framing if the structural integrity is not good enough for that. Then each room consists of just its own "inner-leaf", also on separate framing. So there's no need to beef up the tin, although sealing it to prevent rattles would be a good way to start. - Stuart -One additional question: as I mentioned, the current exterior wall of the building is corrugated metal. Would it be worth putting a layer of sheet rock on the inside of that wall or would that violate the mass–air–mass system that I am using for the double stud interior wall?
Great, thanks again!
Ok, here's the studio plan, version 2. I've made the CR bigger, working with a 1 x 1.4 x 1.9 ratio, put the door in the middle of the CR, and rounded off the corners symmetrically.
Everything else is pretty much the same...
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll66/guitargypsy/Studio-Plan-2.jpg
Looking much better! :) - Stuart -Ok, here's the studio plan, version 2.