Building new Studio in Baskeland.

Good morning my friends. Long time no see. I've gone through some personal issues, but still continued with the studio building, and i'm in the point of fibre glass/mineral fibre step. Just did the framing for the inner wall and the ceiling in the Live Room, so time for preparing the electrical conducts, air ducts, and putting up isolation, and after that the gypsum boards!! :-) I need to do some horizontal framing for the mineral fibre holding, but i want to wait until i buy it and know the exact measures. As you can see, i have plenty of space between the two walls, 32cms in one wall, 39 in the other, and 21 in the ceiling. Any suggestions if i should buy fibre glass or mineral wool? I was thinking on buying Acustiline 30kg/m3, dunno if it's 40mm thick. Putting three layers of 30kg/m3 of rockwool. Any suggestions? Maybe i should put more density in the ceiling as i have less space? Also, as you can see, i sprayed the two outer brickwalls from the inside with poliuretane, it's about 6cm thick. I did it for a complete hermetical thing, as i was concernet about the ceiling mainly, as it's a wooden floor and not air tight. Dunno if i did it well, spent like 700€, and dunno if it was worth doing for the price, but it's already done, so, hahah! I'm also wondering about the airducting, it's a 60m3 room aproximately. How big should be the in/out ducts? The diameter? Maybe i should plan this before doing the framing, but again i'm doing things upside down, lol. I was wondering if there are any split type solutions which also include fresh air, appart from cold/hot air. Thanks for any advice. I will post some pics of the Control Room later, as it's more advanced and already did some Mixing and Mastering there, although the room response is horrible yet haha! XD

Any suggestions if i should buy fibre glass or mineral wool? I was thinking on buying Acustiline 30kg/m3, dunno if it's 40mm thick. Putting three layers of 30kg/m3 of rockwool.

There's not a lot of difference, really. Mineral wool with a density of around 50 kg/m3,or fiberglass at around 30 kg/m3 will both work well.

Maybe i should put more density in the ceiling as i have less space?

Insulation does not make up for missing cavity depth, nor for missing leaf mass. Insulation is there mostly to damp the internal resonances going on inside the wall, so the density (or rather, the gas flow resistivity) needs to be optimal for that purpose. Using higher density insulation won't help with that, and in fact could harm isolation if the density is very high. The only way to make up for a smaller cavity, is by using more mass on the leaves.

Also, as you can see, i sprayed the two outer brickwalls from the inside with poliuretane, it's about 6cm thick. I did it for a complete hermetical thing, as i was concernet about the ceiling mainly, as it's a wooden floor and not air tight.

That's fine for sealing, but does not count as insulation, and won't help there. That type of foam is usually closed-cell, so it has very little useful damping effect. It isn't "porous absorption", acoustically.

I'm also wondering about the airducting, it's a 60m3 room aproximately. How big should be the in/out ducts?

Big enough to provide the flow rate (volume) of air that your room needs, at the flow velocity (speed) that it needs. You use the general guidelines for HVAC systems to do that, by starting with the number of "room changes per hour" that you need, as well as the amount of replacement air that you need according to the room occupancy. Based on that, you figure out what duct size will move that volume of air at speeds that are no higher than 300 fpm, and preferably around 100 fpm, or even lower.

Maybe i should plan this before doing the framing,

:thu: If not, then very probably you will find that the silencer box and/or ducting just won't fit. You'd probably have to cut out some framing pieces to get them in, then replace the missing framing. And doing that safely is a challenge!

I was wondering if there are any split type solutions which also include fresh air, appart from cold/hot air.

There are a few, yes, but not many, and even then they don¿t provide for removing stale air...

I will post some pics of the Control Room later, as it's more advanced and already did some Mixing and Mastering there, although the room response is horrible yet haha!

Cool! Looking forward to seeing that! And also seeing the REW test results... :) - Stuart -

Hi there again! Sorry for the late replies and few posting. I'm pretty busy with work, music projects and all :wink: I feel like a dumb for the questions i made without reading such great threads about HVAC. Now that i feel more into the stuff, i was thinking on a design which i'll be discussing with a sound engineer in some days. I will separate Fresh Air and AC side, so my main concern is about rthe Fresh Air side. Here you have some SketchUp screenshots. Basically i'll be building all the ducts and machines over the LR in the upper floor. I hope it works for making an idea of what i have in mind :mrgreen: The In/Out boxes into the Live Room are suposed to be Silencers LOL. (i will paste the text in the HVAC thread :D ) And also there will be a Mini-Split in the Live and Control Room. My concern with this system is that if it's cold outside, lets say 0ºC, the minisplit (better said the inverter) inside the Live Room will have to work very hard all the time, and maybe there could result some annoying air currents due to the high contrast of temperatures? I'm planning to get some advice/help from a engineer, but building all that i can by myself. Of course the refrigerant thing will be done by an authorized technician. Also, i've heard that the air flow should be of 20 renewals per hour? I read about 6 i think here, but they told me that code says minimum 6 for a small office for instance, not for a room with activity, sweating and headbanging :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Cheers to all, and have a nice happy day :P

My concern with this system is that if it's cold outside, lets say 0ºC, the minisplit (better said the inverter) inside the Live Room will have to work very hard all the time, and maybe there could result some annoying air currents due to the high contrast of temperatures?

For very cold or very hot climates, then use an HRV or ERV unit at the point where the air exits and enters the building to/from the outside. Those units are very efficient, and can recover a lot of the heat that would otherwise be lost.

Also, i've heard that the air flow should be of 20 renewals per hour?

20 is a LOT! Not necessary for a studio. You would only need such a high rate in places like bars, restaurants, night-clubs, and industrial rooms. For a studio, 6 to 10 is about right. Your silencers seem to be rather large, which is not a problem! Except that it takes up a lot of space. I normally try to put the HVAC system in the cavity between the inner-leaf ceiling and the outer-leaf ceiling, where possible, so that it takes up no floor space. Of course, it does reduce ceiling height in part of the room like that, but in general that can be preferable to losing floor space. - Stuart -

Hey Stuart ;-) I asked for advice to the expert who will build me the airducts about the high temperature contrast and HRV systems, and what he suggested is that due to the few days through the year that i will have those contrasts, i should try just first putting the Fresh air system, and see what happens before spending that much money. He says that i should be perfectly there with a Mini Split even with the high contrasts. So first i will install the fresh air system, and leave the Mini Split ducts installed for future installation if my budget doesn't allow me to do it now. I have started installing the insulation, finally fiberglass of 12cm thick and 15kg/m3. I know that it's not too dense and it should be 30, but i got crazy asking everywhere if they had 50kg/m3 of rockwool or 30kg/m3 of fiberglass, and NO ONE had them. Finally i found this supplier who offered me this material for really cheap, and i went for it. 1000€ for 60m2 of 12cm of fiberglass, 120m2 of 65mm mineral wool (lana arena 30kg/m3) and 20 sheets of 1200x2400mm x 18mm of drywall. I'm in the process of putting in the insulation right now. I've been also looking for acoustic caulk, and i find it impossible to find it here! It's a pain in the ass getting the proper material here. Even the 18mm drywall was like something from outer space. I can't find any foam backer rod neither, and there's only one supplier of green glue in spain, i'm afraid of even asking for prices... :? I am a bit concerned about the floor. I am thinking on installing real wood, i like the feel of real wood, specially in the area where playing music, bare foot and stuff :) , and i just bought it yesterday. well, they suggest installing the wood over some small frames of timber, 22mm high in my case, and i was planinng on first putting the isolation sheet, then the frames, fill the 22mm gaps with rockwool, and then the wood floor. Will this gap of 22mm high filled with rockwool create a resonant cavity enough to become negative? Or the gap is small enought that it will be insignificant? Should i install the wood directly over the isolation sheet as laminated floor? Damn, i always realize about these details after buying the stuff :oops: I can get my money back though. Here you have a view of the process. I hope to finish today with the fiberglass and wool installation.

And soryy about my english, but i've read the caulking threads, and i don't undesrtand the "mud and tape" term in the gypsum-gypsum joints. Should i use the acoustical caulk just in the perimeters, and the gypsum-gypsum joints with the regular gypsum paste and tape? I found GG in France, which i can get 32 units for 550€ and 10€ of shipping costs. My layers will go like this: 19mm DM- 18mm Gypsum- 18mm Gypsum. Cheers and thanks in advance!! :wink:

and i don't undesrtand the "mud and tape" term in the gypsum-gypsum joints.

"Mud and tape" is an American term for how to deal with the gaps between adjacent panels. The "tape" is either a paper-like ribbon or a ribbon of a gauze-like fiberglass grid, that covers the joint, and the the "mud" is just a type of thin putty-like compound that, similar to plaster, that is into the gap between the panels and also spread over the top of the tape and, to cover it over completely and seal it up. You might find this useful: http://www.familyhandyman.com/drywall/t ... s/view-all https://www.thisoldhouse.com/how-to/how ... sh-drywall - Stuart -

Fantastic Stuart!! Muchas gracias! ;-) I learnt some tips from those links!! I perfectly understand now. Well, i'm done with the rockwool and fiberglass. Tomorrow it's time for vapor barrier and first layer of DM!! I've also made the two holes for fresh air system I'm designing all the ducts aswell, so a professional guy builds them for me and then i will mount them by myself. About Green Glue between the last two layers, the screws are removed after some time of curing, or they remain there for the rest of the eternity of cosmos? :mrgreen: Oh, and i also built the patch! Pretty happy with the result. And did some guitar recordings. I'm getting really excited with everything!!

1st layer of DM and 18mm Drywall done in the walls!! Acoustic Caulk from Green glue in all DM joints, with prior foam rod in the perimeter. Some tape & mud today and tomorrow two layers of 15 and 13 mm drywall in the ceiling and another 18mm in the walls. There's a part of the ceiling without the vapor barrier yet, i purchased 3 bags of 2x10 meter plastic, and i realized yesterday that one of them was only 2x5!!! Awwww!!

20mm DM boards on the walls, 18mm Drywall on the walls, 15mm Drywall in the ceiling plus 13mm in the ceiling almost finished. Another layer of 18mm Drywall left on the walls. Tape and mud left in the ceiling. I applied the Green Glue compound in the 13mm ceiling layer, pretty liquidish stuff and easy to manipulate. I'm going to do the same with the wall 18mm layer, and all perimeters with foam rod plus Green Glue acoustic caulk. Gotta prepare the second door aswell, and the ventilation ducts, but i'm checking isolation before opening the fresh air in and out-takes. Just curious how it works right now. I'm thinking aswell that i could have done it before buying the three boxes of Green Glue compound. Maybe i would have enough with two layers on the walls with no GG :shock: And save like 700€. :oops: