Basement Studio in Sweden

Hello everyone! And thanks for a fantastic forum! So much knowledge in one place. I’m Nick from Sweden and I’m totally new to this forum and to forums whatsoever. I’m a midaged guy fallen back into music and recording/ mixing after a 15 years break. Now I’m going to to build a studio in a basement in the city centre of my town. I’ve been reading on this forum and some other forums for a while and the more I read/ learn the more insecure I get. At first I just looked for mobile treatment stuff like panelabsorbers and basstraps but now my intension is to build new inner walls with built in treatment. I have a joinery company and a workshop with all the tools needed, (we mostly build kitchens and interiors for bars, shops etc) so building and materials is´nt a problem. There is no need to insulate for neighbours but some traffic/ outside noise is coming in. I think most noise comes in through the windows. ( the windows are in niches so they are easy to fill with insulation) So the thing is to create a good treated CR and recording room. The room/ rooms has concrete floors with plastic carpet and concrete ceilings and original walls are gypsum. The floor will be a wooden floor with something soft under and the ceiling only what it takes for good treatment because of the already low height. I´m also a little concerned about the heatradiators that is going to be built in between the original wall and the inner studiowall. If this airspace have to be absolutely sealed then I can´t have an opening for the radiator and no heat will come in from those. My plans is one control room and one recording room and maybe a Iso/ vocal booth. Maybe it is better with a bigger recording room and to use mobile absorbers and diffusers to create different recording environments!? The walls between the CR and rec room can be put up where the best room ratios can be found. This walls must also include doors between CR and Rec room. I,m recording and mixing mostly pop/ rock . It will be recording of drums, git amps etc. I,m using a Soundtracs 48ch desk (2100mm long) Pro tools HD and Yamaha HS 80 for nearfild on the bridge of the desk and trying to get a pair of Yamaha NS 1000 or similar for soffit mounting. Any comments would be greatly appreciated, thank you Best regards Nick

Hi Nick, and welcome to the forum! :)

I’ve been reading on this forum and some other forums for a while and the more I read/ learn the more insecure I get.

That's good! It means you are understanding acoustics, and studio design. If you were not insecure about it, that would mean that you didn't get it yet ... :)

I have a joinery company and a workshop with all the tools needed, (we mostly build kitchens and interiors for bars, shops etc) so building and materials is´nt a problem

That's great! Excellent, in fact. So you certainly have the knowledge and equipment to build it right.

but some traffic/ outside noise is coming in. I think most noise comes in through the windows ( the windows are in niches so they are easy to fill with insulation)

Very likely. Windows and doors are always weak points for isolation. However, insulation by itself is not going to stop the noise coming in. Insulation can be part of the solution, yes, but it is not enough by itself.

The room/ rooms has concrete floors with plastic carpet

What do you mean by "plastic carpet"? Can you provide some photos, or links to the manufacturer's web site, to see what that is? Can you take it off, to leave just the bare concrete?

The floor will be a wooden floor with something soft under and the ceiling only what it takes for good treatment because of the already low height.

I would suggest laminate flooring, with a thin underlay. That will take up less than 1 cm, leaving you as much height as possible. However, if you have a problem with outside sounds getting into your room, then you probably will need to do something to isolate the ceiling. You say it is low, but how low, and what is it made of? What is above it?

I´m also a little concerned about the heatradiators that is going to be built in between the original wall and the inner studiowall. If this airspace have to be absolutely sealed then I can´t have an opening for the radiator and no heat will come in from those.

What type of radiator, and can they be moved inside the room itself?

Then I changed for this design.

That's a much better option. That's the one I would go with. - Stuart -

Hi Stuart, and thanks for your reply! The floor is linoleum flooring , a 2mm thick surface glued to the concrete floor ( see attached pic.) It could of course be removed, everything is removable , but would it make things better? The ceiling is thick concrete. It´s a 5 floor house and it is a small office above. I have to track drums and other loud instruments at evenings or weekends when the office is closed. ( I have a job to do daytime anyway ) The ceilingheights can be seen in the drawings in my first post. But, how much in height would it take to do a functional isolation in the ceiling? I think It could be a little difficult to move in the radiators. Maybe I can turn them down and install new ones inside. I have a new design again, design 3 See attached drawing . The door to the CR is in the back instead of the front. The walls between CR and liveroom can be placed where the best ratios can be found. In design 3 the CR is ratio 1. 1:40, 1:90 and the liveroom is a liitle harder to calculate due to 2 different ceiling heights. Do you think I can go with that size or shall I do it shorter in length? I also attached a detail for isolation for windows. What do you think? When the layout is fixed and ready I would really like to have some input in the treatment in the rooms. Hope that’s ok. Thanks a lot Nick

The floor is linoleum flooring , a 2mm thick surface glued to the concrete floor ( see attached pic.) It could of course be removed, everything is removable , but would it make things better?

Not necessary: linoleum is actually a pretty good surface, acoustically, so if you like the way it looks, then just leave it like that.

The ceiling is thick concrete.

Excellent.

I have to track drums and other loud instruments at evenings or weekends when the office is closed.

It would be good if you measure the levels with a sound level meter: both the maximum level when the drums are being played, and also the level that you think is acceptable for others in the building. The difference between those two numbers is how much isolation you need.

But, how much in height would it take to do a functional isolation in the ceiling?

It depends on how much isolation you need, and which method you use to build the ceiling, but with a concrete slab above you, I would think that the ceiling will only take up about 10cm or so, maybe 15.

I have a new design again, design 3 See attached drawing . The door to the CR is in the back instead of the front.

That's great, acoustically, but for practical workflow it might not be so good: How do you get from the control room to the live room? It seems that there will be a long walk to do that.

the liveroom is a liitle harder to calculate due to 2 different ceiling heights.

Ratios are not so important for live rooms: for a control room they are important, but not to much for a live room.

When the layout is fixed and ready I would really like to have some input in the treatment in the rooms. Hope that’s ok.

That's what this forum is here for! :) Post as much as you want, with as many details as you want, and I'm sure you'll get good advice. - Stuart -

Hi again I´m going to have a laminatefloor that I´m going to lay over the linolium with just a foam in between hope thats fine? Have done some measuring and listening in the house and I think that I need to Isolate the ceiling in the liveroom. About the walk from liveroom to controlroom, its about 15 m (see picture below). I have some questions: Do you think the detailpicture in my second post about isolating the windows is ok? Do you think that the blueline is to far to go from liveroom ro CR? Can you show me a detail in how to install the inner ceiling in the liverom? can I let the studs in the wall go all the way to the concrete ceiling and then fix the innerceiling a little down so I leave an airgap over the insulation or shall the studs not go all the way to the concreteceiling so the room only touches the flloor? Can I use any fabrics for my traps, superchunks etc or a special quality? What kind of insulation should I use in the superchunk. Ridgid or regular wallinsulation? I use a brand called ISOVER. I have an SPL meter and even though I think it´s quiet it shows around 35-40db on C and slow. What db can we call quiet enough inside a liveroom? I have some sketchup pictures below where I drawn som treatment in. is it a good start? (se pics below) And now my last question for today: I´m thinking about to build my shellwalls with 1 layer of 19mm mdf and 1 layer of 13mm gypsum on 2"x4"studs with 4" insulation. What do you think about that compared to 2 layers of 15 mm gypsum? Thanks alot, Nick

I´m going to have a laminatefloor that I´m going to lay over the linolium with just a foam in between hope thats fine?

If the lino is flat, smooth and level, then no problem. But if there are bumps or dips in it then you need to fix those first. Check with the manufacturer of the flooring that you want to use to find out what the maximum permissible bump or dip is. They normally express that as "x mm per 1m", meaning that that the level of the floor must not change by more than x mm over a distance of 1 m in any direction. so if you lay a 1m steel ruler on the floor, then there should be no dips deeper than x mm, and no bumps higher than x mm.

Do you think the detailpicture in my second post about isolating the windows is ok?

IT looks OK, yes.

Do you think that the blueline is to far to go from liveroom ro CR?

That depends on you, and how you work! If you only need to go from the LR to CR one or two times each day, then it's no big deal. But if you need to run back and forwards a dozen times an hour, to set up mics or tune instruments or adjust whatever, then you'll probably get really tired of doing that, really fast!

Can I use any fabrics for my traps, superchunks etc or a special quality?

Any breathable fabric will work fine. "Breathable" means that if you hold a piece of the fabric over your mouth and nose, that you can breath through it normally, without noticing any resistance.

What kind of insulation should I use in the superchunk. Ridgid or regular wallinsulation? I use a brand called ISOVER.

Use semi-rigid insulation, with a density of about 50 kg/m3 (or a bit less) if it is mineral wool insulation, or about 30 kg/m3 (or a bit less) if it is fiberglass insulation.

I have an SPL meter and even though I think it´s quiet it shows around 35-40db on C and slow. What db can we call quiet enough inside a liveroom?

Once again, that depends on what you want to use it for. If you will use it mostly for heavy metal drums, then 40 dbC is great, but it you want to use it for soft romantic vocals, that's not so fine, and if you were planning to use it for ADR or Foley work, then that's totally unacceptable. The normal way of deciding on how quote a room needs to be is by using the NC curves (or NR curves, in Europe). A good live room will have something less than NC 20, and a Foley stage will likely need to be under NC 5.

I have some sketchup pictures below where I drawn som treatment in. is it a good start? (se pics below)

The general idea is fine, except that I would not put slat resonators on the rear wall. I would make that totally absorptive, with thick insulation, instead. If not then you will be getting reflections of the back wall coming back to your ears too soon, and too loud. Apart from that the basic idea seems OK.

And now my last question for today: I´m thinking about to build my shellwalls with 1 layer of 19mm mdf and 1 layer of 13mm gypsum on 2"x4"studs with 4" insulation.

Great! But I would make it OSB or plywood, rather than MDF, and I would also use 16mm gypsum instead of 13mm. - Stuart -