Hello folks!
I've been mixing in here for quite some time, having gotten used to the fact that the low end/low mids response is terrible and mostly doesn't translate well at all. I have to mix with very little bottom in the room in order for mixes to come out well, and lower mids can be tough on more dense mixes. I'm about to get a different console (a trident series 24), so since I'll have to take most everything out in order to get the newer, slightly wider console in there, so I might as well see if anything can be done to improve said response.
Oh, and clearly, I'm a huge fan of the "run-on sentence". :) More coffee!
The dimensions of the room are:
width - 10'
height - 9'
length - 14' 5"
..and here's a crude layout, done in illustrator:
I used to have the console in front of the studio glass, I wouldn't mind going back there again, it would make sense, considering the trident is about 1.5' wider... In the end, however, I'd rather have the translation be more accurate than ergonomics, but if I can have both, terrific! Also, you'll note, we have some traps hanging, and while they seem to tame flutter echo (that was never really bad in there anyway), I'm not entirely sold that it's doing anything for the bottom end. Mostly, they just seem to be a pita, but there's so much stuff in such a small space, who knows?
Anyway, I look forward to your suggestions, and I wish I had the time and resources to rip it all out and do it correctly (I'd also love to have the jbl's soffit mounted, etc...), and the layout is strange, to say the least, but I really don't have either, time or resources; work and family keeps me running..
Cheers!
Hi "crunch", and welcome to the forum! :)
Before you do anything, it would help to find out objectively what is wrong with the room. Download and run the REW acoustic analysis software (it's free!), and post the results here. That will show exactly how the room is reacting.
To me it looks like the issue is a major lack of bass trapping. For a room that size you will need lots of bass trapping, and you don't seem to have much.
The dimensions of the room are:
width - 10'
height - 9'
length - 14' 5"
It's not terrible, but not fantastic either. Theory says you need 356 sabins of absorption in there to get within ITU / EBU specs. That's the same as 356 square feet of open window, or 356 square feet of perfect acoustic absorber. It does not look like you have anywhere near that.
I used to have the console in front of the studio glass, I wouldn't mind going back there again, it would make sense,
It wouldn't. :)
In a small room, the speakers should always fire down the longest axis of the room, not across the short one, in order to ensure that the reflections off the rear wall are delayed as long as possible, and attenuated as much as possible, before they get back to your ears. The ideal is more than 20ms delay, and more than 20 dB of attenuation. That isn't possible in most small rooms, but you should still shoot to get as close as you can to that. And setting up the room sideways will take do the exact opposite...
Also, you'll note, we have some traps hanging, and while they seem to tame flutter echo (that was never really bad in there anyway), I'm not entirely sold that it's doing anything for the bottom end.
Those do work, but they have to be set up in the correct place, and you have to have enough of them.
Anyway, I look forward to your suggestions,
Do the REW test, post the MDAT file here, and also add some photos of the room so we can get a better idea of how it is set up at present. Based on that, we can probably figure out something.
- Stuart -
Thank you Stuart! I've lurked for a while, but now it's time to do something about this, while I can..
Soundman2020 wrote:
Before you do anything, it would help to find out objectively what is wrong with the room. Download and run the REW acoustic analysis software (it's free!), and post the results here. That will show exactly how the room is reacting.
Agreed, I have the software, but had to grit teeth and order a "reference mic".. So, basically, lol, not only do I have to purchase a cheap behringer mic that I will likely only use a few times, but the ONE TIME I'm willing to go to Guitar Center (banjo center?), they don't have it in stock. Classic! Anyways, $60 later on musicians friend... I doubt anything we have in our mic locker would give a very accurate look at what's going on.. a sdc?
Soundman2020 wrote:
To me it looks like the issue is a major lack of bass trapping. For a room that size you will need lots of bass trapping, and you don't seem to have much.
Yes and no. I have 9 of the realtraps rockwool owens-corning guys hanging, as the very less-than-flattering image below suggests, and I have a few more hanging about the french doors on the back wall.. Is it the best stuff for the corners? I DOUBT IT! Basically, the room seems wonky around 250 to 300 hz, 90hz and below, but we'll know soon enough once I get my crappy, ahem, excuse me, reference mic, likely by Thursday or so..
crunchland.jpg
Soundman2020 wrote:
The dimensions of the room are:
It's not terrible, but not fantastic either. Theory says you need ... does not look like you have anywhere near that.
Yes, it's brutally small. The live room is approximately the same size, but we have a drum kit, several, several amps and my old upright piano which I love very much! The wall separating the two rooms isn't load-bearing, (the one with the window), and I sometimes fantasize about moving the wall one way or the other, but I'm starved for space in either room, so I don't think there's any easy answers here.. But I seek and welcome the advice of professionals, and since sound leakage isn't a massive issue, you guys may likely have some thoughts or designs I hadn't considered. Maybe a bigger control room (we would love seating in the "back", a drum booth and an amp/piano room/vocal booth... See? Even TYPING IT and I'm trying to do too much in too small of a space. Yet, I'm always working... Makes no sense.. Clearly, a face-palm emoticon is required here..
And setting up the room sideways will do the exact opposite...
Agreed.
Do the REW test, post the MDAT file here, and also add some photos of the room so we can get a better idea of how it is set up at present. Based on that, we can probably figure out something.
Thanks man. Thank you very much! Really looking forward to it, I'll hopefully post my results on Fridayish...
