garage to music room conversion

Hi There Everyone, We just bought a house which has a really nice double garage separate from the house which has become my music room. I'm hoping to gradually rennovate the interior to make it a more superior music room over time. The main room is about 6m (~ 19.5 ft) wide x 6m long x 2.4 m (~ 8ft) ceiling. The garage is separate from house with hollowish bricks about 8" thick. The purpose of this room: * budget is limited, i know there will be compromises :) * home recording (not pro recording...) * band practice / jamming room (guitars/bass/drums/piano) * in future may get dual purpose as home theatre My challenges are: * On limited budget where best to spend... Ideally sound proof enough to play drums / bass at comfortable levels (not rock concert level) without disturbing neighbors (Is this realistic goal?) Our neighbors aren't particularly bother by noise from drums in any case, but just to be polite :) And acoustically good enough so drums & vocal don't sound muddy when recorded (now i get wayy too much reflection) Based on my reading on the topic of studio I'm currently coming up with this high level plan (Is it ridiculous?) My plan is to spend ~ 1k - 1.5k a month (aussie dollar) over a year (or until completed) * Build wood frame using 2x6 frame. Considering separating this from brick walls by 1ft - Will this give me significant sound proofing improvement or not worth the gain? Consdiering due to low ceiling I'm probably going to have to attach it to ceiling in some way? The wall I was planning (There are no windows, but will need to block up the garage door which is the major sound leakage area right now) From brickwall side to interior: 5/8" giprock 2x6 wood frame Insulation (Should I get special 'sound proofing varieties?' We do not need insulation for weather, only sound proof help) Genie Clips Furring Channel 5/8" giprock Green glue another 5/8" giprock - solid doors I've wondered is it worth putting "echo reducing" giprock on final internal layer, or better just to use some rigid fiberglass coated in fabric in certain locations? For floor: - it's on the ground, no moisture problems (at top of hill) - On top of concrete I plan to lay - #15 asphelt felt - 2x layers of 3/8" plywood - 3/4" hardwood floor Drums will be raised in a corner on carpet, with some movable panel surrounding them to reduce sound leakage For ceiling: - ideally i'd like to raise it but this is probably future dream - for now any ideas on getting best bang for buck on a relatively thin ceiling (dual layer giprock + genie clips + furring channel? ) Thanks for any tips.

Hi there "chentiangemalc", and welcome! :)

Ideally sound proof enough to play drums / bass at comfortable levels (not rock concert level) without disturbing neighbors (Is this realistic goal?)

Depends what you mean by "limited" budget. Drums and bass are the hardest of all instruments to isolate. 2 reasons: They are very loud (110-120 dBC), and most of that energy is in very low frequencies, which are also the hardest to isolate. Isolating at frequencies of 10 kHz is a piece of cake, but getting the same amount of isolation at 100 Hz is amazingly hard. About 1,000,000 times harder. Literally! (Do the math...). Isolating requires mass, so at the very least you need to build a stud frame a few cm away from the existing walls, and put at least one layer of 16mm drywall on that, then put joists across the top and hang at least one layer of 16mm drywall from that too. None of this new structure can touch any part of the existing garage (except for the floor, obviously). That will get you maybe 40 to 45 dB of isolation. In other words, outside your walls, your drums will be down to around 60 dBC, which is roughly the level of conversation. So if your budget cannot stretch to doing that much, then there is no point in doing anything. But if your budget can go beyond that, then extra layers of drywall, Green Glue, larger air gaps, and other things are the next step. That could take you to 50-something dB of isolation, maybe even 60-something, with luck. That's about as good as you can hope to get in a home studio.

Our neighbors aren't particularly bother by noise from drums in any case, but just to be polite

The neighbors you have right now might be OK, but how about the next ones that come in a year or two? Neighbors don0t stay forever...

And acoustically good enough so drums & vocal don't sound muddy when recorded (now i get wayy too much reflection)

Treatment is certainly possible, and not as expensive as isolation. That "mud" can certainly be cleaned up extensively on a tight budget. But the treatment will do nothing at all to reduce the levels outside... Isolation and treatment are two different things.

My plan is to spend ~ 1k - 1.5k a month (aussie dollar) over a year (or until completed)

That sounds like a decent and realistic plan. Over one year that gives you maybe $18k, for 36 m2 means around $500 per m2. If you do all the labour yourself, that's getting into the general ball park of where you need to be.

Build wood frame using 2x6 frame.

2x4 is probably fine for the wall framing, but the ceiling will need to be beefier: spanning 6m with a heavy drywall load is going to need some hefty joists.

Considering separating this from brick walls by 1ft - Will this give me significant sound proofing improvement or not worth the gain?

1 foot is great, but might be overkill. 8" is already pretty good for an air gap. But consider that "air gap" means the distance from the surface of the existing walls to the surface of the new drywall, so the studs alone provide 3-1/2" of air gap. So setting that frame 5" from the existing walls gives you an 8-1/2" air gap. (if you build conventionally, that is. If you build inside out, then that isn't true)

Consdiering due to low ceiling I'm probably going to have to attach it to ceiling in some way?

Nope! You can't do that. At least, not with a hard mechanical connection. The two leaves MUST be mechanically decoupled, fully, nothing touching. Not even a single nail. Any mechanical connect at all greatly reduces the isolation.

(There are no windows, but will need to block up the garage door which is the major sound leakage area right now)

Take it out and brick it up, if local regulations allow that. If not, then just lock it down permanently, remove all the opening hardware, and brick up a few inches behind it.

From brickwall side to interior: 5/8" giprock 2x6 wood frame

:shock: :!: :?: That sounds like a THREE-LEAF wall to me! Lose that first layer of drywall and you will greatly increase the isolation. Sounds illogical, I know, but it is absolutely true. Search the forums for discussions on two-leaf vs three-leaf...

Insulation (Should I get special 'sound proofing varieties?' We do not need insulation for weather, only sound proof help)

Not necessary to get overpriced insulation. Just get ordinary fiberglass or mineral wool insulation. The density should be around 30 kg/m3 in the case of fiberglass, or 50 kg/m3 in the case of mineral wool.

Genie Clips Furring Channel

Forget that too. You don't need it, since you are already decoupling your inner-leaf by building the new stud frame. Decoupling twice is pointless. It wont buy you any extra isolation.

I've wondered is it worth putting "echo reducing" giprock on final internal layer,

Beware of magical products that claim to defy the laws of physics! If you are on a tight budget, then just go with ordinary firer-rated 16mm drywall. Also, don't confuse "isolation" with "treatment". They are not the same thing. In fact, they are opposites. Yes, it is possible to take care of some treatment issues along with the isolation shell, but they are still separate, diametrically opposed concepts.

or better just to use some rigid fiberglass coated in fabric in certain locations?

Exactly. But designed correctly, and placed in the correct locations.

- On top of concrete I plan to lay - #15 asphelt felt - 2x layers of 3/8" plywood - 3/4" hardwood floor

:shock: Why? For what purpose? Concrete is a GREAT surface for a studio floor. No further materials required, especially if you are on a tight budget. If you don't like the look of concrete, or if it is in bad shape, then just lay laminate flooring, or ceramic tiles, or lino, or something like that: Hard, reflective, etc.

Drums will be raised in a corner on carpet,

It would be better to build a proper drum riser for that. Keep the impact noise out of the floor.

- ideally i'd like to raise it but this is probably future dream

Not hard to do: a panel of 703 on the floor, a couple of layers of plywood, screwed and glued, and you are done. A few hours work.

- for now any ideas on getting best bang for buck on a relatively thin ceiling

Nope. Sad to say, that is not possible. "Thin" will not isolate (unless you are talking about doing it with exotic materials, such as lead plate...). To isolate, you need mass. The ceiling has to be done to the same level as the walls, or you are wasting a lot of money y doing the walls! Sound is 3D, not 2D, and goes up just as well as it goes north, south, east or west. So if you don't do the ceiling/roof to the same level of isolation as the walls, then you wasted an awful lot of money doing the walls.... - Stuart -