Mid-Size Studio Design

Stuart - that explanation is amazing. I remember reading some of that in MHoA, but it must not have stuck - easy to get overwhelmed with all the info in the book.

Thanks! :) Yep, MHoA is a big book, with "information overload" in every chapter. I keep going back to it, to check that what I think I recall really is what it says. And sometimes, it isn't... :) - Stuart -

Thanks for correcting me Stuart :yahoo: Cheers - Ken

trying to get started on a new design today...started with the basics and doing some ray tracing (which I haven't had much luck finding explanations on how to do...) The info for the LSR6332 states +/-30° horizontal, +/-15° vertical dispersion.... Once I angle the soffits to match the proper speaker angle and add the basic outline for rays... it really starts to look like none of the reflections from the side walls would reach my ear before bouncing off the back wall..... Clearly I'm missing something or doing this wrong somehow...help?

Looks like maybe the JBl specs are incomplete or misleading..... found this article: http://www.psneurope.com/newsletteraudi ... 3EF490C788 which states 100° x 60°. Gonna go with that and see what I wind up with.

The info for the LSR6332 states +/-30° horizontal, +/-15° vertical dispersion....

That's probably just tweeter, or response within a certain frequency range. I normally trace out to at least 60°, often more. And you probably don't need to use so many rays: every ten degrees or so is usually enough, unless you have unusual features on your walls. - Stuart -

Submitting this for review... am I on the right track at all?

Obviously I've spent a good chunk of time sorting out the angles and ray tracing this room - and I made it originally attempting to make the average dimensions close to one of the best ideal ratios (though I managed to mess up the measurements somewhere along the way - they're still not terrible) The problem is that with anything approaching good rations, as long as I have the control room facing the live room like this - which is something I would like - I wind up with nearly 3 feet on either side of the control room side walls empty space. Either wasted or awkwardly placed. If were to do something akin to what Glenn posted last - what dimensions would I use. In that image, it looks a little square-ish or maybe wide to me, though I'm guessing that was not the intention.

Also started doing it with the last full design I posted (that was based on JHBrandt's suggestions)

I think it would be better if you check 180° to make sure that RFZ cover mid to low because The monitor radiates omni-directionally at low frequencies. At higher frequencies, the energy radiated becomes increasingly directional. Between mid range to low could be 180°. So I always check 180° just to make sure At design stage, you can save sometime by checking only where angle's changing Example every 5° (This is just quick draw for example. it might be better idea if RFZ cover people standing around engineer as well) Acoustic axis 1.2m or 4 feet above the floor. (It's standard height but a bit too low for Sketchup's 3D people model) Dot lines are direct sound, Normal lines are first reflection and lite blue area is Reflection-Free Zone As shown in diagram not all reflections change RFZ. Only where angle's changing will effect the area of Reflection free Zone So just check only angle changes and get same result. Less tracing time More designing time These are pictures from Everest's book MHoA He checked 180° but only where angle's changing Cheers - Ken

Ken: thanks for your post - I'm looking at the examples, and two things I can't figure out: 1 - how did you get dotted lines in Sketchup?! The only ones I can get are the guide lines that go on forever and take up a ton of screen space... 2 - both your and Everest's examples have lines that look like they're there to guide in designing but I can't figure out their purpose - on yours they are attached to the red circles...what are you doing there?

Here are some new ones. I think I've decided the sideways control room is my best option. I did my best with adding angles for an RFZ. The side view of ray tracing I did at a bit of an angle because of the way the angled walls were you couldn't see the intersect points from a perfect side view... This also has brought the Ceiling height at the console to around 8' 9.5" ....I need to do some looking at ratios to see how that affects the room modes. Looking forward to any thoughts you all have....

1 Use tape measurement. Click to Start the line, Type in length and Hit Enter :D 2 those red circle just to point reflections that effect RFZ area like 2 circles Everest shown in Elevation view I'm trying to show you that doing every five degrees don't give you better result. It would be quicker if you check only angle changes. If you have 3 angles check 3 As we know Sound follows the same rule as light: The angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection OK lets try again I hope this time it'd make more sense :lol: and do the same to the diagram that Everest used in his book. Cheers - Ken

Ken - I understand that a lot better - thanks so much! Sorry I missed it the first time 'round. Did you see the two pictures I just posted? Most of those adjustments are based on the info you gave.

Side way is good option. I like side way control room because I love using large monitor screen in front of me and look through live room via side window. Yes I've checked ray tracing. here is the result Blue area is Reflection Free Zone. It looks OK :D

my recommendation - decide if your workflow defines the side window and a front window for iso room, or just the side room and large monitor in front (maybe using video between cr and iso room) etc. these things will dictate a lot of the wall features and so on. also, angled walls are not something to fear because a mode calculator cannot solve it easily - there are tools to render room responses based on complex shapes - but there is also the possibility of over-thinking it - the reality is, your room will have stuff in it - some of the stuff will reflect, some absorb, and your ears will change with time, etc. so creating a comfortable work space plus having its overall response be as neutral as possible to make the best possible mix decisions should be a significant part of the goals... the final details on room geometry etc will be subservient to your working preferences and experience...

I hate to keep re-bumping this with the same questions.... The more I work on this design, the less I like the idea of being sideways to the control room. I can make myself do it, for sure, but I don't love the idea of building it that way permanently. Glen - what sort of dimensions would you be looking at with the rough drawing you did previously? I guess turning sideways I may not be able to do a pure RFZ design as a result of dimensions and/or needing a door from the CR to the LR....though I may try some other ideas this evening/tomorrow. Of course, anyone could provide thoughts...haha. Thanks.

I think you can do Sideway with RFZ design If you build another way but same size. You'll end up with sitting too close to rear wall and that won't meet RFZ requirements. Or Build another way and re-size the control room you'll lost live room's area. That wouldn't fit your needs because you said you'd like large live room earlier, didn't you? As far as I see Side way CR would be your best choice base on your needs. What are your dislikes about Side way design? let us know your dislikes so we can exchange our ideas.

I guess turning sideways I may not be able to do a pure RFZ design as a result of dimensions and/or needing a door from the CR to the LR

When you say "If I turn turn sideways", I guess you mean if you turn the CR to face the LR head-on? If that's the case, then there doesn't have to be a problem with RFZ or with access: You could make the center section of the front wall (between the soffits) into the access door, and use a lot of glass in it for visibility. If you design that carefully, it won't affect RFZ, and would give you the advantages of facing the CR directly. I do agree that turning the room to face the CR is a big plus, and worth doing, and I don't think you'd have problems with that, either for RFZ or for access. - Stuart -

ken_ardency wrote:

What are your dislikes about Side way design? let us know your dislikes so we can exchange our ideas.

I've just been spending a lot of time thinking about the permanency of this space and considering all the spaces I've worked in and what I liked or disliked about them. All of the studios I've worked at that I like are set up so that you're facing the window to the live room when sitting at the console/desk. The one studio that I have worked at somewhat often that is sideways with regards to the live room has always felt uncomfortable to me - likely for a lot of reasons, but I am taking into account the sideways layout as well. In addition to this - I have my console set up in my home recording space and have been working on modules for it - with the speakers set up as normal around the console. My desk is to the side where I am working on modules and I have been pumping music through the monitors while working, and not really enjoying that experience of hearing things from the side while focusing on what's in front of me. Trying to visualize that being the way I make production decisions while communicating with performers in the live room makes me wonder if I'd really learn to enjoy it - or be suffering the whole time. I think i could make it work, but do I want something I have to "make work", or do I want the best and most comfortable I can manage with what I have?

Soundman2020 wrote:

When you say "If I turn turn sideways", I guess you mean if you turn the CR to face the LR head-on?

Yes

Soundman2020 wrote:

If that's the case, then there doesn't have to be a problem with RFZ or with access: You could make the center section of the front wall (between the soffits) into the access door, and use a lot of glass in it for visibility. If you design that carefully, it won't affect RFZ, and would give you the advantages of facing the CR directly. I do agree that turning the room to face the CR is a big plus, and worth doing, and I don't think you'd have problems with that, either for RFZ or for access. - Stuart -

My main concern has been one of dimensions and space - If I just turn my current layout to face the live room, I not only waste a lot of space to the sides of the CR, but also make the door placements awfully awkward. I have been working on a layout based on Glenn's post earlier that I think could work pretty well - do you have any opinions on that one Stuart? I laid his drawing over top of the sketchup file and started tracing it - I checked the dimensions in a mode calc, and they aren't bad at all. I'll try and post what I have in a little bit to show you what I mean. Thank you guys for continuing to comment. Sorry if I seem wishy-washy. I promise it's because I'm learning a lot and really putting as much thought as I can into this. I really appreciate all your advice on here.

Still would be a lot to do, obviously.... I know the distance to the back wall isn't good for a true RFZ design - but would making it almost entirely absorptive be good for creating a reflection-free-zone (non-trademark)? Definitely not enough space for a non-environment design, but some of John's and other designs I see on here and his site look to be some sort of in-between.... Adhering to a specific design principle isn't as important to me as making the rooms WORK - the flow of work with the artist, and being able to trust the sound, obviously.

I think I've hit on an idea that I think could be really special... (would need diffusion/trapping along the back wall, etc. Still need to work out front angles)