New Downtown Los Angeles Studio Build Diary

Started by TheGoldenCalf on 17 January 2013. 6 replies.

Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 18093.

Hello everyone. Well I'm about to embark on a business venture with a friend of mine here in LA. We're leasing a 48'x24' unit with a 12' high ceiling. I have completed a 2 year recording technology program here in the LA area, which did include a semester of acoustics, but I'm not going to get too technical with all the equations and such. However, I do know to avoid parallel walls and include absorption and diffusion throughout the rooms. I've been watching/reading these forums for a few years now, and this is my first build. The budget isn't too big (about $10,000), so we're going to have to cut some corners here and there.
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I didn't include the pillars and window in my first draft of the floor plans, because I haven't had a chance to get the dimensions yet. I have a few questions before we begin construction (hopefully within the next few weeks), and i will be posting many more questions as they arise. What kind of fabric are you guys using on your walls? I saw someone post this link http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/guil ... Qgod1HMAIg . There's no A/C in the unit. We can't afford HVAC. What do you guys recommend? There are sprinkler systems in the room. I'm pretty sure we can't cover them, right? So, we're probably going to hang multiple clouds of absorption and diffusion. Even though we are on the top floor, will sound leak from the ceiling into the neighbors rooms? That's about it for now. Like I said, this is my first build. Lots of work to do. So stressful.
"There's no A/C in the unit. We can't afford HVAC. What do you guys recommend? " HVAC...the rooms will be airtight the bodies will sweat and breath clean air in and bad air out. You have to get the bad air out and due to the hyper insulation that it takes to make one of these environments work it will get hot...the hot you may be able to withstand, the bad air, not so much. BTW, "which did include a semester of acoustics, but I'm not going to get too technical with all the equations and such. " we can take it you can trust me ;)
thanks for the quick response xSpace. As much as we would love to include an HVAC system, it's just not possible to squeeze it into the budget. So i was wondering what would be a more cost effective alternative? (if there is one :? ) oh and when i said " I'm not going to get too technical with all the equations and such." .. what i meant was I don't want to get technical. lol. also, i re-read one of the "before you post" threads and updated my first entry with the budget. about $10,000.
As much as we would love to include an HVAC system, it's just not possible to squeeze it into the budget.
You really don't have much alternative! As Brien pointed out, you do need to breath in order to stay alive, and without some for of getting fresh air in and stale air out, you won't live long enough to actually ever produce a mix! :) I know you don't want to hear this, but HVAC is probably the single most overlooked and under-planned item in home studio builds. People forget that they need to breathe in oxygen and breath out CO2 in order to remain alive, and that studios, by nature, are sealed air-tight, with a very limited amount of oxygen inside. Once that is used up, you pass out and die. It is that simple. It is not a matter of comfort, but very literally of life and death. But, as Brien also pointed out, even before you pass out and die you'll be gagging on the uncomfortably hot, stale, bad, smelly, ugly air. It simply is not an option to have a studio with no HVAC. The very least you need is fans, ducting, filters, silencers and registers dimensioned sufficiently to proved the minimum legal number of air changes per hour, based on the room volume and occupancy. But in reality, that isn't enough: you will also need, at the very least, a mini-split system to cool and dehumidify each room. Then there's the issue of humidity: instruments and some types of microphone are sensitive to humidity: their tone changes as humidity increases or decreases. So even if you learn to hold your breath for hours at a time, you still wont be able to track and mix in there, as the sound of your instruments will be changing all the time as the humidity rises... So really, HVAC is a must: you don't have a choice.
also, i re-read one of the "before you post" threads and updated my first entry with the budget
but you are still missing something, rather important! It's in big blue letters, and hard to miss... (click here). :)
However, I do know to avoid parallel walls and include absorption and diffusion throughout the rooms.
Actually, parallel walls are an option, if done correctly. There are reasons why you might need (or just want) to splay your walls, but there are quite a few very successful plain old rectangular studios around... Splayed walls are only needed if you want them, and the issues they solve can also be dealt with in other ways. Your semester of acoustics probably only presented the basics, so they never got to the part of how to deal with parallel walls when you want them. Also, on diffusion: Most types of diffusion can only be used in large rooms, since all numeric-sequence based diffusers, as well as some other types, cause "lobing" in both the spatial and temporal domains, and that takes a lot of space to smooth over. So things like skylines, QRDs and other similar numeric-based diffusers are only appropriate for large enough rooms. Your control room, for example, is way too small to be able to use diffusers, unless they are only tuned to very high frequencies. But in that case, why would you need them anyway? :) Your live room might be able to use them, though.
The budget isn't too big (about $10,000), so we're going to have to cut some corners here and there.
Hmmm.... In a 48x24 floor area, that works out to around US$ 8.68 per square foot. Sorry, but that just isn't realistic. To get an idea of what this is really going to cost you, call around some local building contractors, and ask if they have a basic flat rate per square foot for finishing an unfinished garage or basement as a home theater or extra bedroom suite. Add about 20% to the rate they give you, and that's roughly what it will cost you to do this. With US$ 10,000 you MIGHT have enough to do the basic structure of the control room, but that's about it. And that doesn't even consider your HVAC or electrical installations, permits, inspections, other fees. I would really, really suggest that you need to re-think that budget. Add a zero to it, and you are in the ball-park. Or shrink the project way down to a single rectangular room. Or build the project in stages, as funds become available. Or bring in an additional partner, with deep pockets. Or get financing. But trying to do a project this big on a budget that small is just not realistic. Once again, that is certainly NOT what you wanted to hear, but it is the cold hard truth. - Stuart -
Definitely what I didn't want to hear, but thanks for the advice. Good thing we didn't sign any papers on that lease. Looks like we'll be searching for a smaller place. Suppose we found a smaller place with A/C, what would we need to clean the air?
Suppose we found a smaller place with A/C, what would we need to clean the air?
Since you seem to be planning this as a commercial venture, there are probably building code regulations that you need to follow, either nationwide ones, or ones specific to your area, so it might be worthwhile getting in a local HVAC expert to advise you on exactly what you need to do. But at a minimum, in each room you will need something that brings in enough fresh air from the outside world, and anther duct that exhausts the same amount of stale air to the outside world. The ducts themselves can probably be simple "flexduct", with in-line fans and DIY silencer boxes on every wall or ceiling penetration. A silencer box is just a large wooden thing, lined with ductliner, and a series of baffles inside. There's an inlet on one end and an outlet on the other. The air must flow around each baffle, and that is what keeps the sound out while allowing the air through. Search the forum for "silencer" and you'll find many examples of how to build those yourself. The big issue is dimensions: you need to calculate how many cubic feet per minute of air is required to keep each room livable and legal. That is usually specified in terms of "room changes per hour", and based on occupancy: how many people will be in the room, and what will they be doing. (It is one thing to provide enough air for 5 people sitting still, and another thing to provide enough for 5 people jumping up and down, yelling and shouting, and doing strenuous exercise: ie "musicians".). So you need to size the ducts accordingly, and get fans that move enough air to meet the requirements, but you also need to calculate so that the air flow is slow enough that it does not interfere with your recordings: you certainly don't want loud hissing sounds in all your recordings, from air that is moving too fast! The key is to move a large volume of air very slowly, not a small volume of air going fast. So your ducts need to be over-sized, as compared to normal HVAC systems, and the registers (grills) also need to be proper low-noise grills, not the typical cheap ones. There's a bit more to it than that, but those are the basic concepts. I would start with finding out what the minimum legal requirements are for HVAC, according to your building code, up-size that by at least 50%. and work forward from there. - Stuart -
"there are probably building code regulations that you need to follow" I can guarantee that, and it matters not what city, state, province or country ...when you are spending money ;)