Possible basement project studio Construction (California)

Hello everyone, I've been a lurker on this (terrific!) forum for a while now, but this is my initial post. I think I'm following all of the posting rules (mods please let me know if I'm missing anything!) I own one of those rare CA houses that actually has a basement. I've recently researching in earnest the possibility of building mix and/or recording rooms in the basement and/or attached garage space. Per the city, the garage itself can't be converted (major bummer), which leaves the basement itself, and honestly I don't know if this space makes sense due to possible acoustic limitations. While I'm dutifully plowing through several books mentioned in the forums (Rod Gervais, etc), I'm still a noob in this area. Anyway, below I'm attaching my goals for this space as well as the sketchup diagram. So I'd be *extremely* grateful for any input or advice regarding whether this can be a viable space, given my goals for it. Specifically I'm wondering if anyone here believes that the specifics of the space (dimensions and layout) could be too limiting for studio construction. But bear in mind that I have (I think) relatively modest goals for this studio--it is mean for mixing and preproduction, and potentially the recording of individual instruments/vocals (i.e., it is not meant to track full rock bands--likely not even drums--nor is it meant for commercial purposes). David Budget: $50K for construction of the space itself...but only if it makes sense given the space limitations. Goals for new space, in order of priority:

ESSENTIAL: Comfortable, inspiring space for writing and pre-production. Preferably something a bit larger than the 240 sq ft mix area I currently have upstairs, so I can spread out. ESSENTIAL: Respectable-sounding mixing space. It doesn't have to sound like a million dollar room; but ideally good enough to reliably complete a good mix, without fighting major acoustical problems the entire time. Desirable: The ability to record good-sounding individual instrument tracks (primarily thinking of vocals here, but also guitars, sax, bass). Again I'm not expecting Ocean Way quality here; but if during pre-production a vocalist lays down an amazing take, I'd like to be able to take it to a mix engineer who'll say "I can work with that" instead of "there's no way, she'll have to retrack that." Desirable: Space to record scratch drums for pre-production purposes. Fantasyland(?): space to record respectable-sounding acoustic drums.

Space notes:

The garage is about 400 square feet, and opens up at its rear into a 3rd internal carport on the left, and permitted basement space on the right. The garage itself has 11.5 ceilings at its center peak and 8 ft ceilings at its edges The carport and permitted basement areas are about another 1000 sq ft, but only have 7.5 ft ceilings. The floors are concrete throughout. The garage has nothing above it but its roof, but the carport and permitted basement space have the rest of the house above it. I've confirmed with the city that the basement permit is valid; however the blueprints I found related to the construction say "storage only". I assume this means I can't put bedrooms or bathrooms or ovens in the basement, which is fine by me. But I do need to figure out if additional eggress (doors or window wells) if I put my gear down there. The basement is partially below grade. The ground slopes downward gradually from the back towards the garage in the front. There are old small windows and vents/grates along the basement walls; obviously these would have to be addressed for acoustic reasons. Currently no heat in the basement, or air flow other than that provided by the vents/windows. The garage cannot be fully converted due to parking restrictions with the city (huge disappointment!) I do *not* know if the city would allow me to wall off a portion of the two car garage and convert that space only. Not sure if this would buy me much, but it's worth noting that the third internal carport is directly behind one of the two spaces, i.e. a single door garage would still allow two cars to be parked internally. I have neighbors 50 ft to either side of me. However as I have fairly modest goals (mixing room, pre-production, and tracking of individual instruments only--the loudest recording would probably be for an individual vocalist or saxophone, not rock bands!), I am hoping that isolation won't be a huge issue.

I'd be *extremely* grateful for any thoughts or input. Thanks in advance.

Hi David, and welcome! :)

I think I'm following all of the posting rules

So far, so good! :) :)

The carport and permitted basement areas are about another 1000 sq ft, but only have 7.5 ft ceilings.

OK, so that's clearly the big issue you are concerned about. 1000 sq ft is great, but 7.5 feet is not much to work with, and as you certainly know by know, sound needs height to sound good. Most instruments need space, but drums, especially, need height. Drums is an unusual case, since you need to have mics overhead. With a low ceiling, the mics are practically at the ceiling, or real close, and therefore picking up major reflections, with very short time delays, which implies comb filtering, phase cancellation, and all those other nasty things. There isn't much you an do about that with treatment, either. You can't make the ceiling "go away" enough to be useful with such a low ceiling. So I'd say that "respectable sounding acoustic drums" is probably not something you'll be able to do in there. However, vocals is a possibility, and so are other instruments. As you say, it won't be world class, but it also does not have to be terrible.

The floors are concrete throughout.

That's good. But speaking of floors, have you considered the possibility of going DOWN? Digging your floor down 2 or 3 feet deeper would make a world of difference! Yeah, it sounds scary, and it sure wont be cheap, but it really might be worth your while talking to a structural engineer and an inspector, to see if this is physically feasible, and legally possible. There's a good chance that you would be able to dig out at least a section of that 1000 sq ft, drop it down a good bit, pour a new floor (with footings, obviously) and tie that all in to the rest of the building. It's worth a try: the worst they can say is "no way", but if they say "yes" then you have a really good chance of meeting ALL your goals, including the drums.

I am hoping that isolation won't be a huge issue.

The best way to find out if your hopes are realistic, is to get yourself a sound level meter and measure how loud you are. In other words, in a typical recording session that you do today, take readings of just how loud the instruments are (set the meter to "C" weighting, slow response): Then check your ambient levels in the neighborhood at 3 AM (or whatever time of day is quietest), and also check your municipal regulations on noise. Subtract the smallest number (ambient or legal limit) from the biggest number (in your recording session), and the result is your answer: how much isolation you need: Based on that, you can check the literature to see what types of materials and techniques will get you that number, then choose one that fits your budget, skill set and building code.

Currently no heat in the basement, or air flow other than that provided by the vents/windows.

HVAC is a large and very important part of studios, and often overlooked. Basically, your studio will involve a double-hermetic seal all around you, wrapped in multiple layers of very thick, very efficient insulation. Think of it like two very thick, sealed plastic bags, one inside the other, each wrapped in thick blankets... Obviously, it will get very unpleasant in there, very fast. HVAC is a must. So you need to figure that into your budget and plans too: either a ducted system with an air handler somewhere, or a mini-split unit for each room, plus ducting for fresh air and stale air. In either case, you'll also need silencer boxes.

and honestly I don't know if this space makes sense due to possible acoustic limitations.

I guess what it boils down to is this: it is what it is, and if that's the only option you have, and your only other option is "nothing at all", then it makes sense to do this. If your choice is that clear cut: "something not ideal but usable, or nothing at all", then I reckon I'd go with "something". And of course, if it is possible to dig down a bit (without breaking the bank), then it certainly makes sense! - Stuart -

Thank you for the fantastic (and detailed!) reply, plus the warm welcome. This is extremely helpful, and much appreciated. I feel a bit better about one of the main "threshold" issues--whether it's potentially a workable (if unspectacular) acoustic space. That said, I'm considering hiring a designer for an initial consultation--a Steven Klein-type (I believe he is in the LA area?)--to actually visit the space and make recommendations, and potentially work out a design. I'm curious how many people on this board go this route (i.e get professional help), and how many just DIY it. There are really some amazing, professional-looking DIY studios on this board! I'm handy enough for most "home improvement" tasks, but I'm certainly no expert on acoustics, or the design of acoustic spaces. Clearly this is a forum which is dedicated largely to spreading critical information regarding *how to build a studio yourself*...so I'm wondering how people feel there is still real value in hiring professional consultants and designers(?) I think the other threshold issue I need to tackle is related to the HVAC--or more generally, ANY necessary action item that will require a permit. When we initially purchased the house, it was with the idea that we'd have a lot more latitude to make modifications to a house than we did as renters; now I'm not so sure :( I'm becoming increasingly concerned that the only thing I'll be able with my 1300 sq feet of basement and garage is store canned goods and lawn equipment. (*sigh*) But in any event, I'd rather figure this out up front, rather than $30K into the project.

I sent you a PM as well, David: it looks like you didn't get it yet, though, so please check your messages...

I'm curious how many people on this board go this route (i.e get professional help), and how many just DIY it.

There's a mix of that. Some start out trying to go the DIY route, then realize they are out of their depth and hire a designer. The trouble is, many of the folks who do that, then stop posting on their threads, so you never know how it turned out! Some do, though, and that's great. But most of the folks here who have successfully completed their studios, or are in the process of doing so, have taken the time to learn the basics of acoustics, and the basics of studio design, then do it themselves, with the help of the other forum members. I really can't give you a number, and say that zz.z% hire designers and yy.y% go totally DIY. It would be interesting to have that statistic!

I'm handy enough for most "home improvement" tasks, but I'm certainly no expert on acoustics, or the design of acoustic spaces.

It's not that hard to learn, although it does take time. Figure on a couple of months, at least, to learn enough to get a good start on your design, then a couple more to actually do the design, and iron out the kinks in it. You probably can do it, if you really want to, and if you have the time. But for some builders "time" is the issue, and they prefer to hire someone to do the design for them, so they can shorten the cycle a bit. There's also the issue of money: obviously, designers don't work for free! So part of your budget will have to go to his fees, but really, that is money very well spent. There have been a few cases, right here on the forum, of people who tried to save on designers fees, did something silly, and then wasted a lot of time and money undoing it and re-doing it. Probably cost them more in wasted materials and labor than the designer's fee. Plus, a good designer can save you money by optimizing the design, and not over-designing or under-designing. Over designing means you buy and install more materials than you really needed, so you wasted money. Under-designing means you didn't put enough in, so you have to go out and buy more (after the place is finished, and didn't meet your goals), then modify it. Both of those are big money wasters. So purely from that point of view, paying someone to design it for you is money well spent, and might actually save you money in the long run.

Clearly this is a forum which is dedicated largely to spreading critical information regarding *how to build a studio yourself*...so I'm wondering how people feel there is still real value in hiring professional consultants and designers

Personally, I think there is value in hiring someone, if you realize that you are totally out of your depth and unlikely to be able to learn enough, soon enough. On the other hand, if you have time and are reasonably smart, then most people probably can figure it out. But that goes back to the "time" issue... Time to learn, time to design, time to check the design, time to compare it with other designs, etc.

I think the other threshold issue I need to tackle is related to the HVAC--or more generally, ANY necessary action item that will require a permit.

That's smart: Any job you don't know hoe to do, or don't feel comfortable doing, or lack the qualifications to do, should be farmed out, most definitely. So things like structural issues, HVAC, electrical, glazing, pouring concrete, and other similar things might well need professional input. But you might still be able to do the basic design for those things yourself, and then pay the expert to take a look at that and correct your errors. It all depends on how involved you want to be. So I guess what I'm saying here, is that everyone is different: some can handle everything themselves, some can handle part of it, some just want to hire a guy to do it all. The forum is for all three, but mostly for the first two: There's a huge amount of very solid information on this forum, and a lot of good people who can help, including some world-class designers, such as John himself (obviously!). So here on the forum, you'll should (hopefully) get the same level of advice and knowledge as you would from a designer, and you get it for free! But you have to do most of the drudgery work yourself, and you might not get the answer you need, when you need it, since the moderators and members here are all volunteers, and help out when they can. Anyway, check your PMs, and let me know if you got that. :) - Stuart -