New (small) studio in Barcelona. Need help on basic layout.

Hi everyone, I have a basement where I can build my studio ( control room + live room ). The problem is: I can only build over the blue area. There are 2 pillars, and one of them has a drainpipe that i can't build around, in case it needs to be repaired. On the right wall there is another drainpipe with the same problem. So, I am a bit lost, because I don't know what to do to get the best control room possible. My brother (architect) is helping me, but he is not an acoustic expert, and the control room he designed is almost square and not even symmetrical (2,47 x 2,38 meters). As you can see in the blue buildable area, there is some spare room on the left side of the small pillar, so the control room length could easily reach 3,00 meters or more. If I do so, I will have a rectangular room, but then I think: "wouldn't it be better to build splayed walls and forget about the rectangular shape"? I've tried to fit the control room between the top wall and the pillars in many ways. ( I'm not considering to build the control room on the top-right corner because this is the larger area and I need room for the drumset). The ceiling height is 2,75 meters. I don't know if it makes sense to speak about the budget at this stage ( basic layout ) but I can tell you that my budget is around $50.000 Any ideas? Rectangular shape or splayed walls? Does it make sense to build splayed walls on a tiny control room? Can I demolish those pillars? :D (I wish I could) I've been reading many threads in the forum, but I'm still lost. By the way, if you need more details I have them. Thanks, Marc (I just attached 2 pictures of the basement)

well, given the post success :D I came out with a layout. I'll make the control room larger in one axis, so it's not square. But now I have a dilemma. This is not a professional studio, it's a hobby, so 90% of the time, I'll be alone, recording myself. So, I wonder if I should go for option A or B. Option A means I'll have to open 2 doors to move from room to room, but I'll have a window between both rooms, and that's good if I ever have to record someone else. Also, I won't have a door at the back wall, and it might be better acoustically. Option B means I can move from one room to the other easily, just 1 door, but it's not very good if I have guests to record. On the other hand, I'll have a door in front of the speakers, (behind me) and I think that's not very good if I want the back wall to be dead. I think everybody would choose A, but I am not so sure, as I'll be alone most of the time. Do you think it's going to be a pain in the *** to open an extra door and walk these extra steps a 1000 times in the next years? In the future, I would like to record other people, first for fun, later for money if I have the chance. What do you guys think is the best option, A or B? thank you!! Marc

Hey, what's wrong with this post? I expected at least 1 or 2 answers. I am going to spend a lot of money and I want to be sure I am doing the right things. Any advice is welcome. Do you need more details? Do you want measures in feet, inches? What can I do to get your attention?

I expected at least 1 or 2 answers.

What you "expect" and what you actually get might be two very different things! :) All the folks here who provide help are volunteers: nobody pays us to spend those dozens of hours every week trying to help out all of the members here. There aren't many of us helping out right now, and there are a LOT of questions, There has been a lot of activity on the forum recently, and there are only a couple of active moderators right now, so you'll just have to take your turn and wait in line like everyone else. Right now, I have about eleven other threads ahead of yours in line for answers. The other moderators probably also have yours lined up, and whoever gets to it first will doubtless answer, when they get to it. It make might several days to get a response sometimes, but that's the way things work around here. Sine the advice you get here on the forum is FREE, and is provided by folks who just want to help and have their own lives to live, sometimes that can take a while. If you think that your thread didn't get noticed because there are no replies in a week or so, then the polite things to do is to "bump" it, or add a post that says something like "Can anyone help?". If you need answers urgently and don't want to wait, then the other option is to pay for the design services of one of the folks here who offers it. There are a few members who can do that, starting with John himself (of course! :) ). If you need to know who they are, then send me a PM and I'll be glad to put you in touch with them. - Stuart -

Ok, I get the point. I'll be more patient and understanding. I just thought that people would answer quickly because my questions seemed too elemental. Thanks Stuart, Marc

Hi Marc, and welcome! :) Sorry about the delay in getting back to you: there's a lot going on here on the forum right now.

So, I am a bit lost, because I don't know what to do to get the best control room possible.

First, it would help to understand what your goals are for this studio: Is this going to be a commercial facility, where you will have people paying you to record them, or is this more of a hobby studio, just for you and a few friends? In other words, do you need a large control room to accommodate a lot of people together, or do you need a large live room to track big groups? It helps to have the purpose of each room clear, so you can optimize the use of space.

If I do so, I will have a rectangular room, but then I think: "wouldn't it be better to build splayed walls and forget about the rectangular shape"?

Both shapes are good, if done correctly. The advantage of a rectangular room is that the modal response is easy to predict, and it usually maximizes the use of space. The advantage of splaying your walls it that you can get an RFZ easier, and it minimizes flutter echo. Plus, it looks cool. So once again, it helps to define your goals: if you want an RFZ design, then splaying walls is a good way of getting that. If you don't want to get into that amount of complexity and expense, then maybe a simple rectangular shape is better.

I don't know if it makes sense to speak about the budget at this stage ( basic layout ) but I can tell you that my budget is around $50.000

It is always useful to know what your budget is, and you seem to be budgeting very well. That should work just fine. A lot of people come here with a small budget and big ideas, which is often unrealistic. Your budget is realistic.

Can I demolish those pillars?

It MIGHT be possible, but you'll need a structural engineer to come take a look and design an alternative support structure. You probably have the budget to do that, but the question is: "Is it worth it?" How much space could you gain from that, and is it worth spending all that time and money on it? Only you can answer that question. And only a qualified structural engineer can answer the question about feasibility and cost.

This is not a professional studio, it's a hobby, so 90% of the time, I'll be alone, recording myself.

OK, so in your second post you already answered my question above. :) So this is hobby, not commercial, and mostly just you: I'd suggest changing things around to get a larger control room plus a drum booth, rather than a small control room and a large live room that probably won't ever be fully occupied.

So, I wonder if I should go for option A or B.

I would definitely go with option "A". It has all the advantages you mentioned, and the only disadvantage is that you need to go through four doors instead of two to get from the CR to the LR. That probably isn't a big deal, especially if you can duplicate a lot of the CR functionality right in the LR, such as with a second screen, keyboard and mouse for your DAW, good headphone routing, etc. Minimize the number of trips you need to make between the two. Maybe even consider a console that can be controlled remotely: for example, there are some that can be controlled by i-Pad and even i-Pod now. Might be worth looking into.

Do you think it's going to be a pain in the *** to open an extra door and walk these extra steps

Actually, you'll be opening four doors per trip, not two. Your control room door will actually be a pair of doors, back to back, and the live room door will also be a pair of back-to-back doors. (assuming you want good isolation between the studio and the house!). And if you went with option "B", then that would also have to be a pair of back-to-back doors. - Stuart -

Thanks for your reply, Stuart. I appreciate it. I am not very happy with the rectangular shape of both rooms, so lately I've been busy reading many posts and learning as much as possible. I want to try out new layouts. Also, I was sort of "in a hurry", and I just realised I need time to make things right. I followed your advice and wrote a mail to John, since I am considering the help of an expert ( not for a full design, but for a basic layout design, I mean room size and shape). I don't know if he offers this kind of service ( or anyone here in the forum). The reason I don't want a full design is: 1) It would be too expensive 2) I am really excited about doing it myself ( at least, part of the design) Meanwhile, I'll keep reading and learning. Thank you! :thu: Marc

Hey Marc, Good to see you back! Getting a designer to do it for you can actually save you money, in many ways, For example: it would be rather sad to have to tear things down that were done incorrectly, and re-do them the right way. There are cases right here on the forum of people who have had to do that. Or in optimizing materials: there are also cases of studios that have been waaaaaay over designed, using excessive amounts of materials. As well as cases of people using expensive or exotic materials that they simply did not need to use. So those are all factors that can save you money. On the other hand, you can also do it yourself, if you really want to, and that's what this forum is all about! Helping people to learn how to design their own place. Realistically, it takes several months to learn all the stuff you need to know, then several months more to do the actual design, before you even get to pick up a hammer and a piece of wood. There is just so much that you need to take into account, and learning it all takes time... If you want to go that route, then I'd suggest you start with two books: "Master Handbook of Acoustics" by F. Alton Everest (that's sort of the Bible for acoustics), and "Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros", by Rod Gervais. The first one "MHoA" is more theoretical, about how things work, while the second one is more practical, about how to build it. I also sent you a PM with more information that you might find interesting. - Stuart -

Hey Marc, i am too in the process of building a studio in barcelona, i will realy advise reading books as well. i have learned a lot in forums but a good book gives you a very good guide to follow as well as a broad knowledge on acoustics and isolation, room size, what to avoid and not do. i think planning is as important as the building itself. also getting your ideas down with a designing program like sketchup gives you a very good feedback in "real" situation. its not that dificult to use. thanks

kaneyking wrote:

Hey Marc, i am too in the process of building a studio in barcelona,

Nice! is there a thread in the forum? I'd like to see how it evolves.

kaneyking wrote:

i will realy advise reading books as well. i have learned a lot in forums but a good book gives you a very good guide to follow as well as a broad knowledge on acoustics and isolation, room size, what to avoid and not do. i think planning is as important as the building itself. also getting your ideas down with a designing program like sketchup gives you a very good feedback in "real" situation. its not that dificult to use.

thanks, now that I know how to import 3ds max files into sketchup ( without scale problems) , I'll upload a 3d model of the basement. cheers!