Converting studio storage to sm control & iso rms (Philly)

Hello folks, My name is Brian McTear. I have a small mostly DIY studio in Philadelphia PA, USA. I've been running it for about 18 years, 6 or so years out of the current location. I'm contemplating the idea of building a second, smaller control room and iso booth in what has been largely unused storage space on the first floor (below the existing live room upstairs). I'm not entirely sure it's possible, which is why I've been poking around here the past few weeks. About the Building: The building is a roughly 50 - 75 year old, 2 story brick building. Both floors have plenty of exposed joists and posts that look larger than the lumber we'd buy at the Home Depot, if that gives any more exact indication of its age. About the space in which we'll build: I've attached a Sketchup drawing of the available space. My rudimentary drawing is mostly 2D, while I sus' out whether this can work or not. I did draw in wall and ceiling faces as guides for the boarders of the space. The available area under consideration for the control room is 16' 1" x 10' 3" with about 11' 6" of clearance over head. There's an 8 inch by 8 inch post in the center of the building as well and a dirt basement underneath the area we want to build this in. So the floor is not on the earth, it's a wood floor with about 6 feet of space below. The remaining area is oddly shaped, but I'm hoping to position some kind of functional iso space out of it. I want to be able to use the room for: 1. Pre-production / demo work 2. Editing takes while work continues in the "A room" 3. Pre-mix set-up sessions (getting ProTools sessions ready, routing assignments, bussing, etc) for mixing 4. Re-amping guitars and such 5. Touching up mixes from stems 6. Voice-over and or commercial work? 7. Perhaps video editing Most likely it will be outfitted with a ProTools Native HD system, or something of the sort. I'd like a 40 + inch high-res computer monitor, and will likely purchase another set of Quested 2108s (like we have in our other control room). I doubt we'll have a console, though I'm certain I'll build some kind of analog summing system with nice transformers. Considerations: 1. The noise above is considerable. All that stands between the live room is a bamboo floor, a plywood subfloor and old slat wood floor below that, and 2 x 12 joists. Music is usually rock drums and guitars… loud, in other words. 2. The existing Sleeping loft cuts the ceiling clearance in most of the proposed iso space to 7 feet, and that's before any sort of containment from the noise above it. The sleeping loft entrance in out in the kitchen, though, ie. NOT in the existing storage room. 3. You'll notice one existing storage loft to the left of the proposed control room - I would love to maintain access to that. 4. It's a long shot, but the lounge has great sunlight. A window into the area would be lovely. Maybe even windows into both the control and iso rooms. I'm not sure it will work acoustically. 5. We'll want to maintain what we can of the work bench area for fixing broken stuff! Questions: 1. Can I really pull off the noise containment from the upstairs that I need with two 6 inch walls separated by 1 inch of air? 2. Do the dimensions create any catastrophic acoustic issues that an amateur like me wouldn't know of, and, if so... 3. are they correctible? Or should I use the space differently? Ultimately I need to figure out what the costs and return on investment could be. I pride the longevity of this little business, especially these days when studios are dropping like flies, on being smart about such things. So this is mostly a fact-finding mission right now. Thanks to you all so much! B

Hmmm. Bumping this to the top, I guess. Let me know if I've left anything out. I tried to be as thorough and by the rules as I could gather for the forum, too. B

Hi Brian, First off, just going to say that I am not a moderator, clearly, and have much much much less experience than a lot of the guys on the forum. However, I'm currently deep into my own design/build project and enjoy helping others where I think I am able (based on advice I've been given by the experts)...so with the disclaimer out of the way, here goes nothing... Your post looks fine for the most part (at least I think, except for a few little details)...I think most of the moderators are just very busy at the moment. A few things that I know will need some clarification: 1.) Have you bought a SPL meter and run sound level tests in the current spaces? This will help you determine how much isolation you actually need to achieve with your new walls/ceilings. Radioshack sells one that works just fine for basic tests. It's about 60 bucks. 2.) If you could provide a few pictures of the space I'm sure it would help the experienced members give more detailed advice than just the sketchup files alone (although those are very useful too). 3.) Have you read any studio/acoustic books such as Rod Gervais's Build It Like the Pros or F. Alton Everest's Master Handbook of Acoustics? The first is a great all around read for studio construction and treatment methods whereas the second one is a much more in depth "bible" of acoustics, so to speak. Both very great resources. Start with the first if you haven't already done so. It will help a lot. 4.) Regarding the space, which walls currently exist? And which walls are "potential" walls for the new space? I'm a little confused there. 5.) Are you saying that you can't use any of that space shown on the right side? The proposed control room and iso booth are workable but definitely on the small side. However, I do realize this is only a "Studio B". It's just that I'm foreseeing a need for pretty hefty walls (fully decoupled MSM construction of course) considering the rock and roll going on just overhead 8) . Proper walls will all eat into your space a good bit :| . 6.) To add to number 5 and answer your question regarding ratios, it will be impossible to determine the exact "real world" ratios of the room until you know how much isolation you will need, hence finding out what type of wall construction will meet your goals. At that point you will know the thicknesses of the walls and ceilings to be constructed. This will allow you to shoot for a design that upholds the best ratio that can be achieved within the parameters of your space (since you will know the details of the assemblies at hand). It won't work out very well if you do it the other way around. Remember, it's the innermost dimensions of the room that determine the modal behavior of the space (so if you are using 2-3 layers of drywall on studs with green glue between each layer, then it would be the inside layer (the one that's actually visible inside the room) of drywall that determines the ratio...so you'd have to account for all those measurements in sketchup to achieve a good ratio). Did that make sense?? Trying my best here lol. It can get confusing real fast.

Can I really pull off the noise containment from the upstairs that I need with two 6 inch walls separated by 1 inch of air?

Are you only talking about the walls here or the ceiling too? You will need A LOT of added mass in the ceiling (probably using the "beef up with drywall between studs technique") where the current joists are and then an air gap and then your new ceiling. This will allow for a proper 2-leaf isolation plan. Think room within a room here. There can be NO hard connections to the existing ceiling (the one holding the floor above) as this would GREATLY reduce your isolation due to flanking paths. The rooms must be completely separate from the rest of the structure other than where the walls meet the floor (which also seems like it may need some special treatment since it is not concrete). The floors could be an issue, I'm not entirely sure. Need some experts to comment there. <<<<<<<<< Stuart, Glenn, Brien, John?? :?: Well I'm running low on steam...I hope that helped at least a little bit. Looking forward to watching the progress! cheers Trevor