Garage Transformation into Multi Room Studio

Aloha, My name is Mike. I've been reading posts on this site for about a year now, and i've watched a few studios throughout their build. I really enjoy the fact that everyone is so open with suggestions and helpful hints, and hope that i will be able to supply everyone with enough inofrmation to hlep me through my build! Overview: I recently(1year) closed a DIY studio i built in 2008. It was really two office spaces with some acoustic foam and a window... :) (I made a lot of noise out of that little place1). I started doing mobile recording for a while, but began to really miss having my own place to hit a master power switch and just have everything turn ON. While doing mobile recordings, however, i had a chance to record in different types of rooms and spaces, and really began to understand how important capturing audio correctly is. Now i need my own decent acoustic space. I have recently moved into a house up on the mountain and got an agreement from the landlord to turn his garage into a Recording studio. GOALS: I need to be able to track live acoustic drums, so due to space restrictions, i've chosen the "1 Room - Multi Purpose Room" method, but i WILL have a closet space for a vocal/iso booth located in the rear of the garage. The room needs to be constructed in a fashion that will be easily removable upon moving out. I would like to get some isolation from the outside world (and vise-versa) but im affraid my budget will hinder those plans. I would like the room to be able to record when needed, and mix accurately afterwards, (yes, i want my cake and to eat it too). I've had a local acoustic designer come and measure the room for an initial design. I like the design and the simplicity. As i may have mentioned, my main goal is functionality. Unfortunately, i noticed some things in his drawings that made me second guess what his ideas are (according to what i read here in the forum and in Rods book) A BIT ABOUT THE AREA: Located in a small town up the mountain. the house is located next to a road which is relatively low traffic, aside from the occasional punk blowing his eardrums out. There is a lot of road bleed as of right now but the acoustic engineer told me that once we seal the garage door and the outer windows off, most of that noise shouldnt be too audible. he said the garage door and windows were the main problems. I've attached the plans (hopefully) so you can see what i mean. The garage is 21' x 19' x 8'-4"ceiling. Standard stud and insulation walls inside exterior shell. Theres a bathroom located behind the rear wall, adjacent to the closet. The house is located behind the wall the Washer/dryer/sink is on. The division between the W/D/S area is actually a step up of the concrete; 4" higher than the garage floor that runs the same height back to the bathroom... the closet is also 4" higher than the garage floor. Im learning to use sketchup, in the meantime, heres a shot of the hardcopy from my Iphone... assume swayed lines are actually straight! lol The new wall in front of the garage door will be a double wall with 1" airspace between the inner studs... Im NOT going to put drywall in between the two walls, even though he said to... not because i know better, but because i've read so many posts from here saying not to. The other wall, to be built near the washer/dryer/sink area is going to be a 2x8 top and bottom plate with staggered studs and drywall on both sides... both walls will be fiberglass insulated and have 2 layers of 5/8" GB on the inner wall and the outer surface. The corners in the drawing looks like walls, but are really just bass traps; simple: corner framed out, with a 4" thick batt of fiberglass hiding behind a porous material cover. the walls seal against the existing garage walls, making the garage structure part of the shell. The outer windows located in the closet, and on the right side of the room will be sealed with 3/8 glass (still want to let some sun in). the closet will be separated by two pane sliding glass door.... dont need total isolation, just enough to maybe have a vocalist in there doing scratch vocals while we lay the serious tracks down in the bigger room. Im also thinkng of laying laminate or some type of tongue and groove wood floor down cuz the concrete floor right now has all kinds of overspray from a recent paint job. The engineer also told me that building a few gobos would be a good idea. he said i could use them to catch reflections behind me while i mix, and when recording, use them as moveable panels. I'd like to also know if theres a way to use that room as a vocal booth/dead room. It sopunds uber boxy right now... i will measure it tonight when i go home, he measured it but apparently that info was classified. There is a water heater located in that closet, but considering i will close my house functionality down while recording, im hoping that it wont be too much of an issue.... HELP! Budget: $4,000 USD (give or take) Im trying to keep everything as simple as possible due to cost, but i DO want a functional studio. I am currently trying to secure a loan so i can goo into debt for the rest of my life. I made up my mind... i will live a life of being in debt as long as i have a studio... actually its not that big of a loan... maybe another 10g's... but i dont wanna bank on that incase it falls through. Just need a functional studio with decent capturing abilities. Edit: just realized after i hit "post"... totally didnt follow the pic rule.... i apologize!!!!!!

Maybe i put it in the wrong thread. I think i'll build it and then post in the "why isnt it working" forum...

Hi Michael!

I think i'll build it and then post in the "why isnt it working" forum...

Don't do that!!!!! PLEASE do not build until you KNOW that the design is as good as you can get it. Don't waste your money on guess work! I know you were probably just joking but seriously, I've seen a lot of builds on the forum that go that route. Premature construction is worse than a bad design in my opinion...at least a drawing can be fixed for free (other than time consumption)...actual construction though, not so free :shock: . Anyways, I'm not a moderator here, but seeing as they are all very busy at the moment, I will try my best to answer some of the basic stuff. I am currently deep into my own design/build and have learned a lot from some of the more experienced members here. They are seemingly infinite in their knowledge which only goes to show how much can be learned in regards to acoustics and studio design. It really is endless! I hope this pushes you to spend as much time as humanly possible in the design phase. You'll be glad you did. In regard to your design: 1.) Since this space will be functioning as a control room, it definitely needs to be symmetrical. Currently it is not with that left wall splayed like that. This doesn't mean that splayed walls are a problem, but they have to have purpose... such as creating a "Reflection Free Zone" (RFZ) or to reduce flutter echo (which your splayed wall might help with flutter, but since the opposite wall is not equally splayed, you are creating problems already for imaging in your control room...drastic problems, maybe not, but symmetry up to the mix position at the very least, is vital). 2.) The mix position does not seem very realistic. Most likely it should not be that close to the front wall considering it would create very short first reflection times off the front wall (which creates phasing problems and other artifacts that would be better explained by someone more experienced). You want to keep reflection times as long as possible...ideally 15-20ms or more. This may not be possible in your space, I'm not sure, but pulling back the mix position would definitely be better than right by the wall. 3.) Have you thought about soffit mounting your monitors? The advantages (if done properly) are huge compared to free standing monitors. Just a suggestion... 4.) Why are you angling the front wall like that (the "v" shape)? If that is what the "acoustic designer" said to do, then I'm really not so confident he has proper acoustical reasoning behind his proposed plan. Those angles would serve no purpose other than to add difficulty in construction as far as I can tell. :? Well that's a start anyways...I'm getting tired. I hope that helped some. I'm sure you will get some great advice from some very experienced members around the forum. It just takes a little time. They all do this for free and unfortunately, they do have real jobs that take up a lot of their time and energy. One thing I will say for sure though...the sooner you can attach and upload a sketchup file (existing space as well as proposed plans) and maybe even some pictures of the space, the quicker you will get more detailed replies. Looking forward to watching the progress! cheers Trevor

Okay...I withhold my statement in number "2" regarding the monitor placement/mix position being too close to the front wall (until further clarification by an expert). :oops: I read where Stuart (an expert by all means) gave this advice to someone with a small room and free standing speakers...

The room is not big enough to allow you get the speakers far enough away form the front wall to avoid the worst artifacts, so you'd need to put them up tight against the front wall, and compensate with EQ adjustments.

Most likely, if you went with free standing monitors, they would be close to the front wall (to help couple the LF drivers and encourage low end response). However, I do think you would want to spread them out enough to bring that mix position back a bit and spread out the stereo image...unless you really want as much space behind you for the purpose of "live room" space...since this is a multi-purpose room. Lots of ways to go about this I'm sure. Let's just wait and see what Stuart or another experienced member has to say. sorry about that, Trevor

If that "v" shaped wall is angled enough (12º each way) it could help reduce flutter but typically I see that approach done where the point goes inwards rather than outwards. And I've never seen it like that on the front of a control room. Going to need Stuart or someone to comment further on that aspect of the design. What were the designer's reasons for doing it like that?

Thanks for the response! Hi my name is Mike and i have no patience... I built the initial wall, sealing off the garage door. nothing else yet... Here is my new wall plan according to what i though i should do in the first place, and what i've already done. (sketchup is fun... but bad for sleep) Please let me know what you all think, and how i can make it better... (BTW im just concentrating on the main room... i can get to the closet later, i just need to get working already. QUESTION: I fear my inexperience has cost me on this one... What can i do about the ceiling??? The ceiling is drywall hanging from trusses above the garage, and when i peeked my head up there, i noticed there is no insulation or anything... Just trusses, and drywall. Being that i need to keep the garage somewhat intact behind the scenes for when i leave, what could i do to guard from the top? My initial idea was Resilient channels attached directly to the drywall (leaving behind only little holes to patch when i leave) and two layers of 5/8" gypsum connected to the channels and caulked to the new walls... I attached a sketch for clarity... any ideas/suggestions?

For me it's back to front. - Control room should be narrow at the front and getting wider to the back of the room. The Inner shell should have NO connection to the outer shell so float the inner ceiling on the inner shell. The speaker angle should be 60 degrees not 75. Check out this thread. viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6968

Thank you John! i will study that thread. And be back with more questions tomorrow. Have a great day. Thanks for fixing the website.

Ok here's another idea for the room. I changed the speaker angle to 60 degrees, tried to keep the mix position a little closer to the front (which might be an issue?) because i wanted a little more room behind me for the artist. Also splayed the walls close in front and wider in the back. Questions Are my room dimensions ok? according to Rods book, ideal (for my scenario) would be 12' - 9" (ish) wide and 18' - 6" long with a roof height of 8' (after ceiling is built). Because im using this as a tracking room also would it be better to try and maximize space? Im worried that the dimensions i have on the sketch are a little "boxy" and that it may cause weirdness to happen sonically. Roof: I went over the link that John left me and would like to do something of the sort. My only worry is that using 1x3's may not give me the support i need to spand the width of the entire room, and if i use 2x4's i loose more roof height.... i made a quick sketch of the basic idea (i have 8' - 4" to the existing ceiling, which will give me a 7'-10" roof height once all is said and done... please advise, can? no can? And finally, because i am going to someday move out... i cant remove existing drywall from the original garage shell. Already spoke to the landlord and they said no. how bad is that hurting me regarding the "three leaf" effect? Would the "Inside-out Wall" work better in this case? Thank you gentlemen

I went over the link that John left me and would like to do something of the sort. My only worry is that using 1x3's may not give me the support i need to spand the width of the entire room, and if i use 2x4's i loose more roof height....

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see John recommending 1x3s for your ceiling joists in that thread, and there is no way at all that 1x3s will support the ceiling load that you plan to put up there. Neither will 2x4's: not even close. To span 19'6" with a load of two layers of drywall, you are going to need 2x10's at least, and probably more, depending on what type of wood you are using and other factors too. And that's assuming 12" OC spacing: if you do 16" OC then you'd need even larger joists. Nineteen feet is a long distance to span...

i made a quick sketch of the basic idea (i have 8' - 4" to the existing ceiling, which will give me a 7'-10" roof height once all is said and done... please advise, can? no can?

I figure more like 7 feet, assuming you build inside-out. 8' 4" less a 4" air gap (minimum) leaves you at 8' on the dot. Two layers of 5/8" drywall is 1-1/4", leaving you at 7' 10-3/4". 2x10 joists means you lose another 9-1/4", bringing the final height down to about 7' 1-1/2". If you build conventionally then you could raise that a little, but then you'd still lose ceiling height from the acoustic treatment on the ceiling.

how bad is that hurting me regarding the "three leaf" effect?

Depends on how much isolation you need, and at what frequencies. You might want to consider add a layer of drywall on top of that existing stuff, before building your inner-leaf. (If a 3-leaf system is inevitable, then it makes most sense to put plenty of mass on the middle leaf.)

tried to keep the mix position a little closer to the front (which might be an issue?)

How far back in the room are you, in terms of percentage? The theoretical ideal position is at 38%, but that's really just a guideline. Anywhere between maybe 30% and 45% should be reasonable. Just stay away from 25% and 50%, as those are baaaaad places to be. - Stuart -

Thank you stuart! I appreciate you answering my thread! I respect you and all your hard work you put into this thread, along with John and the rest of the folks. I mistook the soon beams in the link for 1x3's. Either way, I am not so sure that a new floating ceiling spanning 19' will be the most efficient solution for me. I will loose a lot more height with large beams. I will upload another "two room" scenario I'm considering. The roof spans will be considerably less, and I will be able to somewhat isolate the drum kit while I track. I was hoping for a bigger room but walls are easier to build than heavy, long ceilings. I will upload in the morning. Thanks guys! I look forward to keeping in touch!

OK here it is... This is another design consideration. I have two small rooms that will be easier to float a roof on each due to the shorter spans. I started out with an 8' x 9'-2" x 11'-2" rectangular room, and kinda modified the room a bit for splayed walls, soffit corners, etc. the sq footage of a rectangular room of this shape is abour 101sqft. The room now (after splaying, etc) is about 81 sqft, not including the space behind the rear (cloth face) bass traps, (which i believe are still considered part of the inner room space?). Considering the ceiling will in fact be less than 8', i'm guessing (wildly) im in the ball park as far as room ratios goes?Is that a correct assumtion? The original dimensions were based off the L.W. Sepmeyer small room ratio of (1: 1.14: 1.39) thanks rod... The live room is just me drawing wild lines in sketchup, and trying to keep as much space as possibe, as well as keep the walls non-parallel. Any better suggestions? I've uploaded a template of the room as is ( i hope it works) if anyone has better suggestions and would like an, "as is" template to show me how its done, feel free. Lastly: My dislexia kicked in and i put the mix position at 48%... im aware of it and will change it tonight... im not efficient enough on sketchup to move it "real quick" and upload the pic to the forum in a timely fashion... But i am aware of it... the soffits will be a little closer but i really would only move the Mix Position 4" closer (@ 40% to give me some room for a small desk, and the occasional stiffy :P ), so if figured you guys would get the point through this pic... sorry Initially i wanted to keep the room as big as possible, but im starting to feel like it would be an easier task to build two smaller rooms. And then i would get the added benefit of a little isolation between the tracking instruments, and my control room. Thanks a bunch gentlemen. I hope you all have a great day. Looking forward to hearing back when you get a chance. Edit: oh ya, the room is not entirely made of wood... sorry Mahalo! Mike

howzit mike! welcome to the fun!! good luck with your build bruddah! i'm putting together one on oahu as we speak! (2 10x20x10 self storage units, i'm building a room in a room). still figuring stuff out but i'll be in your boat soon enough lol. btw, your mixing is getting better and better! keep up the great work bro! aloha!

Thank boss!!!!!! this is nuts... i wanna headbutt things... i guess if it was easy, it wouldnt be so special.... Thanks for the good words bradda... i appreciate it. Too bad i dont have a smokin voice like someone i know... THUNDA!!!! Keep in touch... i'll let you see mine if you let me see yours!!!! hahahaha... you guys get your minds out of the gutter!

lmao!! killin me bah! hahaha but yeah, you're gonna wanna headbutt a lot of things haha! i have my final money meeting tomorrow. looking good though, going with the apollo quad as my interface and gonna do all analog summing with the dangerous d-box (yum!) when its built you gotta come by when you're on oahu!

Nice.... see now i gotta change my shorts... I got a wish list, but yet to have money meetings... just the room for now, upgrade gear laters... Hit me up when your done (or keep me updated on your thread if you get one... do you have one already?) I'll come by for sure!

will do bruddah! i'll post a thread when time comes although, i'm sure i'll be told i'm doing it wrong a thousand times.

Well I only got 995 to go lol!