Medium to Large Studio Build, NEED DESIGN HELP!

Please forgive my awful sketchup skills, i watched a few tutorials and banged this thing out. my doors are pretty shotty. The dimensions are 90% accurate in the model but obviously i will give more details here. I am in the chicago land USA area, i have a budget of maximum $5000 USD for building and supplies. This building location is where I am hoping to move to, I have been given permission to do what i want to the interior (whatever is necessary, etc.) I personally would not like to tear anything down and would prefer minimal wall building but I WILL do what it takes to get it done as correctly and as sonically amazifying as I can! (are those even words?!) There are no neighbors relatively close, as this is a commercially zoned building and it's actually out in the middle of "relative" no where. My goals are to have a studio and location I can bring high end clients in and receive a better response. I do mixing work for a handful of labels on the regular, however, my current set up... is in my basement. I'm basically trying to make the step up from "skilled amateur" to "Legit Professional" The flooring is very old, thin carpet on top of concrete. The walls are made of some kind of 3/4" plywood with wallpapering, i was expecting drywall but, I think this will be better in the long run for a starting point. The reflections in all rooms are pretty intense currently. The Ceiling is 10ish feet high (drop ceiling) There are a couple of ceiling fans in the "great room" of the drawing (sorry couldn't figure out how to add those in SKP) one on each of the far sides respectively (but don't let that hinder you, i'll rip em out if necessary). the "stage" can be removed if necessary, I've lurked on these forums for a few years and noticed in a lot of cases with rooms you guys like to suggest risers etc for furniture in the control rooms, so i was wondering if that was something we could incorporate. As you can see in the SKP the great room shape made it very hard for me to give "accurate dimensions" in text form. If you would like i can go in and try my best to add the lengths and etc in the SKP file itself. Basically Gentlemen I come to you with this: A step in my professional engineering life that I am not ashamed to ask for direction or help on. Give me your build ideas? <3 thanks for your time. - J the SKP with dimensions is in my 2nd post!

sonically amazifying ... (are those even words?!)

Gotta love that! "Sonically" sure is a word, but "amazifying" ... not so much. However, when used like that, I reckon it definitely SHOULD be a word! So I hereby decree that it is now an established part of the very specific terminology of the science of acoustics... :)

There are no neighbors relatively close, as this is a commercially zoned building and it's actually out in the middle of "relative" no where.

OK, so you don't have much to isolate in order to not annoy the neighbors, but how about sound going the other way? You say you want a good quality pro-level studio, but your customers might not appreciate the sound of wind, rain, thunder, and helicopters flying overhead, getting into their recordings. Ditto for the sounds of cars and trucks arriving and leaving, or driving past, people walking / talking elsewhere in the building, phones ringing, radios playing TV, photocopiers, microwaves, HVAC, doors opening and closing, water running, toilets flushing, etc. Those things are often overlooked when considering how much isolation you need, to you might want to consider that!

The walls are made of some kind of 3/4" plywood with wallpapering, i was expecting drywall but, I think this will be better in the long run for a starting point.

Yup! 3/4" plywood is a good start for isolation... but you also need to know what is on the OTHER side of that. Is it 2x4 stud frames with more plywood on the other side? Something else? This is very important for your isolation.

The Ceiling is 10ish feet high (drop ceiling)

Great! If it is a drop ceiling, that means there is more space above the tiles, so you need to measure that, and see what else is up there, in that space. Probably HVAC and electrical stuff, maybe plumbing too. Once again, this is important for both isolation and treatment.

the "stage" can be removed if necessary,

Describe that stage in more detail: how is it built? Dimensions, height, materials, etc.

in a lot of cases with rooms you guys like to suggest risers etc for furniture in the control rooms, so i was wondering if that was something we could incorporate.

Putting the client couch on a riser at the back is useful, yes: gives the client a better view over your shoulder, of what you are doing, and makes him feel a bit more important. But risers are more use acoustically in the live room, for drums kits, bass amps, and other instruments where the vibrations could get into the floor. Relatively easy to make, not expensive, and very useful, so yeah, you sure can have some risers in your live room, if that's what you want, and what your build needs.

If you would like i can go in and try my best to add the lengths and etc in the SKP file itself.

There's a "dimensions" tool under the "Tools" menu: Select that, select the two points whose distance you want, then move the cursor in the direction where you want the dimension to appear. Done! :) Questions: What are your plans and goals for that space? A single combined control room / live room? Separate control room / live room? That plus a vocal booth? Plus a drum booth? Plus an instrument iso booth? Plus a machine room? Plus zzzzz? What instruments and genre, typically, how many musicians? etc. So please mark on your SketchUp model where you think you¿d like to have each of those rooms, and the aprox. sizes, orientations, layouts, etc. so that we can get a better idea of what it is you have, and what you want to do. - Stuart -

OK, so you don't have much to isolate in order to not annoy the neighbors, but how about sound going the other way? You say you want a good quality pro-level studio, but your customers might not appreciate the sound of wind, rain, thunder, and helicopters flying overhead, getting into their recordings. Ditto for the sounds of cars and trucks arriving and leaving, or driving past, people walking / talking elsewhere in the building, phones ringing, radios playing TV, photocopiers, microwaves, HVAC, doors opening and closing, water running, toilets flushing, etc. Those things are often overlooked when considering how much isolation you need, to you might want to consider that!

ahhh!!! all very good points to be considerate of, i will lump this with an answer to another of your questions at the bottom!

Yup! 3/4" plywood is a good start for isolation... but you also need to know what is on the OTHER side of that. Is it 2x4 stud frames with more plywood on the other side? Something else? This is very important for your isolation.

I'm 99% sure it's 2x4's with plywood on the other side as well, i knocked on all the walls and found that there is ONE wall that has drywall up instead of plywood but that'll be no problem for me to take care of. As far as insulation in the existing walls i'm pretty sure it's slim to none, they sound extremely hollow (which, is definitely not what we want). I'll be taking a section down sometime this week to see what's in there precisely, but judging from my climb around above the drop ceiling, that's what we've got.

Great! If it is a drop ceiling, that means there is more space above the tiles, so you need to measure that, and see what else is up there, in that space. Probably HVAC and electrical stuff, maybe plumbing too. Once again, this is important for both isolation and treatment.

I climbed up there and had a look around, all electrical stuff no plumbing (YAY), it's huge up there, the ceiling probably goes up another 10 feet.

Describe that stage in more detail: how is it built? Dimensions, height, materials, etc.

it's 3/4inch plywood with 2x4's for support, also has the same crappy carpet the rest of the rooms do!

Putting the client couch on a riser at the back is useful, yes: gives the client a better view over your shoulder, of what you are doing, and makes him feel a bit more important. But risers are more use acoustically in the live room, for drums kits, bass amps, and other instruments where the vibrations could get into the floor. Relatively easy to make, not expensive, and very useful, so yeah, you sure can have some risers in your live room, if that's what you want, and what your build needs.

awesome!

There's a "dimensions" tool under the "Tools" menu: Select that, select the two points whose distance you want, then move the cursor in the direction where you want the dimension to appear. Done! :)

you sir are a beast!!! I've re-attached it to this one and i'm pretty sure i got em all! Questions:

What are your plans and goals for that space? A single combined control room / live room? Separate control room / live room? That plus a vocal booth? Plus a drum booth? Plus an instrument iso booth? Plus a machine room? Plus zzzzz?

So please mark on your SketchUp model where you think you¿d like to have each of those rooms, and the aprox. sizes, orientations, layouts, etc. so that we can get a better idea of what it is you have, and what you want to do.

My plan was relatively simple, a control room and a tracking room, but i would love to have suggestions to better utilize the space for iso booths etc. Part of why i posted this on here for you all, is because i have no idea where to start really. A little more detail about this building that should answer a lot of these questions that I've not been really specific about. there is a hallway, that runs around the entire outside of my space, with EMPTY offices across the hall from each of them. (that's right, I have a HUGE building all to myself) I was planning on converting one or two of the offices into sleeping space for clients and myself. There's already a kitchen-ish room, the male and female bathrooms are also across the hallway. So what i'm getting at is: if I double wall the outside layer (closest to the hall way) we should be absolutely good to go as far as keeping sound from directly "outside" these spaces from coming in. However the ceiling (i know what you're thinking!) could be where problems would lie with that, and i will have to do a little more in depth investigation up there!

What instruments and genre, typically, how many musicians?

I typically do rock and heavy metal, but i do some singer/songerwriter work at times and I've had a few hiphop projects as well. etc.

So please mark on your SketchUp model where you think you¿d like to have each of those rooms, and the aprox. sizes, orientations, layouts, etc. so that we can get a better idea of what it is you have, and what you want to do.

just Imagine the sketchup space, as a clean slate and let your wildest dreams come to life. I really don't have much of a design imagination other than i want my control room to be roomy and comfy (my current one, is 13'x14' and lets just say when an entire band gets in there, it's a little rough) the rest (sleeping, vending, etc) is taken care of. :D I seriously cannot thank you enough for the sketchup thing, I cannot believe i didn't see that before! The very in depth response to my post also is very much appreciated. -J

Hey everyone, I had an engineer friend of mine give me some suggestions on room layout, take a peek and give me your thoughts. -J p.s. i'll be going up there tomorrow to having the plumbing and heating an air fixed. I'll be climbing around the drop ceiling more, other than plumbing, wiring, and air ducts, is there anything i should be looking for?

I'll be climbing around the drop ceiling more, other than plumbing, wiring, and air ducts, is there anything i should be looking for?

Yup! take photos! Lots of them. It would be good if we can see what you are seeing, but the only way that can happen is if you post photos. Take lots of careful measurements, too. Of everything. Even if it seems insignificant, still measure it. Also, check for gaps, cracks, holes, and penetrations in your walls and ceiling up there, as even very small gaps can severely compromise your isolation. Take note of where they are, and take photos, so you can put together a plan about how to seal those. Don't forget to install duct liner inside all your HVAC ducts while you are up there. That's probably the single biggest thing you can do to control air noise inside the ducts.

take a peek and give me your thoughts.

The front wall of the control room should not be angled like that. Symmetry is critical for control room design: the front half of the room must be perfectly symmetrical about the room center-line. If the room is not symmetrical then you will never have an accurate sound stage or proper stereo imaging, so your mixes will all be "skewed" in one way or another, and will not translate well. So I would fix that first. The control room also seems very long and narrow: What ratio is that based on? You could probably chop off a section at the rear for a machine room, iso booth, or storage area. The two iso booths also have strange shapes: I would add an additional wall to each one, to make the trapezoid instead of triangular. Just some suggestions... - Stuart -

hey guys, I took some pictures of the upstairs, (which, i had a heating and air guy come and tell me about moving the air intake, which sits dead center of my future great room to 3 separate intakes across the studio which will greatly help the sound of it coming in!) I also, gave you guys a video of a complete walk around of the space so you can see it in real time and how i see it! Still looking for design ideas! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10066138/Mp3s/BTS2.0%20walkthrough.mp4 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ VIDEO IN THIS LINK! ^^^^^^^^^^^^ disregard the talk at the end of the video about moving the control room, like i said, i had a heating and air guy come out and we talked about moving the intake. :D