Need help with 12x12 mixing/control room

Hello! First off, I sincerely hope that the following post complies with the forum guidelines. I've done my best to make sure it has, so please redirect me if I've gone astray. From the answers I'm looking to get I'm not certain if this is the right forum category to post in, so please move the thread if necessary. The story: So we're moving into a different home in about 3 weeks, and I've been granted a 12'x12' (yep, dead square but it’s all I’m going to get!) room in the basement to convert into a control/mixing/listening room. I went into the home and measured the room during our home inspection, so I feel I've got a pretty good grasp on it (although I wish I had taken more pics). I will describe it as much as possible here and list questions below that. Cool? OK, here goes. I record and mix some local bands on the side for fun and a (very small amount of) profit. Usually just scrappy local punk bands – my favorite! In my previous house, my control/mixing room measured 4’x8’, which was really little more than a walk in closet. As you can expect, my mixes translated horribly. So, while I know a square room is less than ideal, I feel it’s going to be a vast improvement, especially if I can get it set up correctly. The room size is 12'x12'x7' (well, the dropped ceiling is 7' - in the closet, which does not have a dropped ceiling, it's 8' so I would assume the rest of the room is as well, aside from a sheet rocked portion that I'll explain below). 3 of the walls are sheet rock over a frame, and one wall (the outside wall) is concrete block that is framed out and sheet rocked. There is a closet on one end that runs the length of the room and continues under the stairs. This may become some sort of iso room at some point, but for now it will simply remain a closet. There is a thick glass basement window on the top of one wall, and the radiant heating runs along this wall too (you can see both in the attached photo). Isolation is not really a concern. The floor is painted concrete right now. The ceiling is partially sheet rocked and partially dropped. I hope I can explain this well enough! The dotted line in the floorplan illustrates the location of the sheet rocked portion. It starts at the wall with the door and runs 4' into the room. It is 6” lower than the dropped portion of the ceiling (which as noted above is 7'). I assume they covered duct work with it, but am not for sure. The dropped part of the ceiling has pink insulation above the tiles, and the style of the ceiling tiles are shown in the pic below. My budget for the flooring and treatments is about $1000. I can go a bit above this if necessary. I plan to build my own broadband absorbers that will be 2'x4'x6"(4" of OC703 or equivalent on top of a 2" frame). I hope that's enough info to start! My questions are as follows: 1) Which wall should I place my desk/monitors on? I understand that I'll want my listening position about 33% into the room, correct? 2) I'm deciding between carpet and vinyl w/ an area rug for the flooring. Which of these would yield the best results, acoustically speaking, for a room that is primarily used for mixing (and by 'primarily', I mean that I may track vocals in there from time to time)? 3) How many broadband absorbers do I need and where should they be placed? I'm thinking I can place 3 of them in the 3 open corners, 1 floating above my listening position, and several along the back and side walls. So there you have it. I'd love to hear any and all advice outside of the questions I've listed above as well. This is a fantastic forum, and I feel I've learned a lot already. Thanks so much in advance! Ryan

After some more reading, I'm going to attempt to answer my own questions. Let me know if I'm on the right track! 1) Which wall should I place my desk/monitors on? I understand that I'll want my listening position about 33% into the room, correct? Upon further review, it appears that I'm going to want to start with my listening position 38% into the room. 2) I'm deciding between carpet and vinyl w/ an area rug for the flooring. Which of these would yield the best results, acoustically speaking, for a room that is primarily used for mixing (and by 'primarily', I mean that I may track vocals in there from time to time)? It seems that carpet is generally NOT a good idea for what I'm going for. I think I'll replace the ceiling tiles with something a little more absorptive with maybe some denser insulation above it and then a non-carpeted floor. I had mentioned vinyl simply because of appearance. I could go with just painted cement, but I'm not sure I'll like the looks of it. 3) How many broadband absorbers do I need and where should they be placed? I'm thinking I can place 3 of them in the 3 open corners, 1 floating above my listening position, and several along the back and side walls. I think the answer to the first part of this question is "An awful lot", but I'm still not certain how many and where to place them, so any ideas on this would be helpful. Again, any futher advice/opinions/etc regarding the room setup and treatment would be much appreciated!!

Hey Ryan, Congrats on the new house!! (and esp. the new studio space!)

a 12'x12' (yep, dead square but it’s all I’m going to get!) room

The square room will create problems :( I am assuming that actually moving one of the walls is probably not practical. I think the best solution might be to build a stud wall out of 2x2s covered with fabric along the right side (looking at your floor plan) of your room about 2' in. Then fill the empty space with hangers made out of homasote. (you can find lots of information on building hangers by searching in this forum) Some of the more experienced readers might have a better suggestion :yahoo: Basically, anything you can do to shorten the length that sound waves get to travel for one of the dimensions of the room is going to help. You might even try moving large items of furniture along one wall. not ideal, but it won't hurt to experiment.

1) Which wall should I place my desk/monitors on? I understand that I'll want my listening position about 33% into the room, correct?

If the room is square it won't matter which wall you are facing. If you can make the room a rectangle, you will want to have the speakers aimed down the longer dimension. 32-38% is a good place to start with the location of the listening position, but you will want to experiment with making small adjustments till you find the best sounding spot! A cheap measurement mic like the Behringer ECM8000 and measurement software (I like Room EQ Wizard, and it's free) can help you find the perfect spot!

2) I'm deciding between carpet and vinyl w/ an area rug for the flooring. Which of these would yield the best results, acoustically speaking, for a room that is primarily used for mixing (and by 'primarily', I mean that I may track vocals in there from time to time)?

With the limited budget you have, I would leave the floor alone for now, and put your money into to acoustic treatments. Concrete is a decent floor surface for a studio.

3) How many broadband absorbers do I need and where should they be placed? I'm thinking I can place 3 of them in the 3 open corners, 1 floating above my listening position, and several along the back and side walls.

Sounds pretty good. One cheap trick I found for building clouds and absorbers is to call some of the HVAC contractors in your area and see if they have scraps or miscuts of duct board that they will give you (or sell cheap) I have built some great clouds and bass traps for almost nothing this way! Have fun, and I look forward to seeing some pictures of your new studio!

Thanks for the reply! There IS another room option. This room is located directly to the right of the one in my post above and I had previously ruled it out due to the fact that it has no door and I was hoping to be able to track drums in the family room area and at least have SOMETHING between me and the noise. Dimensions and a pic of part of the room are below (the reason for the limited pics is because I took them from the MLS listing online - we still have another few weeks until we're in the house!). This pic shows the sheetrocked portion of the ceiling that I referred to in my first post, as well as the archway into the family room. Everything else from the first post applies - ceiling materials and ceiling height, floor, and walls. The door on the right hand side leads to an unfinished portion of the basement that has washer/dryer, boiler, water heater, unfinished bathroom, etc. The 9' 10" wall is obviously where I'd place my desk now. So, now my questions would be: 1) Is it worth giving up an enclosed room for potentially better room dimensions? And are these dimensions THAT much better? 2) If I do select this room, what problems/concerns would the open archway and non-symetrical back walls pose? 3) How would one treat this room? I could now get absorption into all 4 corners, which is a bonus. But would I still need this with the open back wall? Again, I would love to hear any and all feedback aside from just the above questions. Thanks again!

Still looking for input on the above. Anybody? Please and thanks!

Just following along ... One aspect that hasn't been mentioned ... Do you have any 'isolation' concerns ... not only for external sounds, but for any other inhabitants in the house ? What about neighbors ??? Then the issue of isolation from a live band playing and the control room monitoring?? Normal home constructed walls are not usually useful to studio work. Understood you're just getting to the house ... but the gang here is going to need more details from you so that they can provide the best information particular to your build. Just trying to help ... don't forget ... it can be very helpful to read through previous threads on board to give perspective.

Hi Ryan. Welcome! :) Agreeing with and adding some random comments to what the others have said: YOUR FIRST POST:

The room size is 12'x12'x7' (well, the dropped ceiling is 7' - in the closet, which does not have a dropped ceiling, it's 8'

Are you planning to take out that drop ceiling and expose the joists? It would be good to see what is up there...

The floor is painted concrete right now.

Great! So your floor is done already! :)

My budget for the flooring and treatments is about $1000.

Skip the flooring: concrete is fine, and any other type of acoustically decent flooring would eat such a large chunk out of your budget as to leave you with basically nothing for treatment.

1) Which wall should I place my desk/monitors on? I understand that I'll want my listening position about 33% into the room, correct?

38%, not 33%, but that's just a guideline. In a square room, it doesn't really matter too much which way you orient it. But I think I would use the "outside wall concrete block" as the front wall, as it gives you the best options for treating the room. However, if that would cause symmetry issues with the strange ceiling arrangement that you mentioned, then I'd switch to another orientation, to get good symmetry.

2) I'm deciding between carpet and vinyl w/ an area rug for the flooring. Which of these would yield the best results, acoustically speaking, for a room that is primarily used for mixing (and by 'primarily', I mean that I may track vocals in there from time to time)?

If you really are set on doing flooring, then vinyl would be the choice. Carpet is bad for so many reasons. But there's no need to do anything to that floor: if it is in decent condition, the plain old bare concrete is a great floor, acoustically, provided that you treat the ceiling suitably.

3) How many broadband absorbers do I need and where should they be placed? I'm thinking I can place 3 of them in the 3 open corners, 1 floating above my listening position, and several along the back and side walls.

I would start with bass traps before worrying about broadband absorbers. Large superchunks in as many corners as you can. With a square room that also has a mathematically related height, you are gong to need stacks of bass trapping. So make them LARGE! :) Then if you still have money left over, do your first reflection points next, then the back wall, then the front wall (between the speakers and the wall). SECOND POST:

I could go with just painted cement, but I'm not sure I'll like the looks of it.

Or if you can increase your budget, then think about laminate floor: that can look really nice, and is also excellent acoustically. THIRD POST:

There IS another room option.

:thu:

I had previously ruled it out due to the fact that it has no door

That can be fixed! A couple of sheets of plywood or MDF, a few screws, a few heavy duty hinges, some door seals... Bingo!

and I was hoping to be able to track drums in the family room area and at least have SOMETHING between me and the noise.

If there's no door, it wouldn't make much difference. Sound travels pretty darn well through open doorways! :) Yes, you'd get some benefit from the distance, but not enough to be amazing, especially with drums.

And are these dimensions THAT much better?

Oh YEAH! Day and night. That's almost a dead ringer for Louden's fifth best ratio, and it passes all three of the BBC's critical tests. The other room failed two of them...

2) If I do select this room, what problems/concerns would the open archway and non-symetrical back walls pose?

I guess the biggest problem would be how to fit a door into that archway.... :) But a few 2x4s and a couple of sheets of drywall could easily fix that problem. By the way, you never didn't mention how much isolation you need to the rest of the house... As RJ mentioned, that's an important issue. - Stuart -

Thanks for the replies!

RJHollins wrote:

Do you have any 'isolation' concerns ... not only for external sounds, but for any other inhabitants in the house ? What about neighbors ??? Then the issue of isolation from a live band playing and the control room monitoring?? Normal home constructed walls are not usually useful to studio work.

I did mention in the first post that isolation wasn't a concern, but I should have elaborated a bit more - sorry about that: External sounds - the house is on a quiet cul de sac, so traffic noise, etc is a non issue. Neighbors mowing the lawn would probably be the only thing I'll have to worry about (as in my last house), and that's easily worked around. Other inhabitants - they leave whenever I have loud tracking to do! Neighbors - It's a full basement with a reasonable distance from the other homes. The only time I do anything loud is during daylight hours. We'll see how sensitive the neighbors are! With as infrequently as I track loud stuff, I don't think it will be an issue. Live room/control room - I certainly don't expect to be able to do critical monitoring while the drummer is wailing away in the next room. As long as I'm able to dull the noise enough that I can get away without earplugs, I'll be OK. I'm used to setting up mics, getting a bit of a recording, reviewing it, making tweaks/moving mics and repeating as necessary until it's dialed in. It's not the ideal situation, but that's the kind of stuff you have to deal with when you don't have the ideal space! And the option of using the rectangular room has been retracted - my wife has plans for it, so square room it is. I'm going to stay focused on the benefits - I'll have a closet to use, there'll be a door, and there's some natural light in there! I feel my expectations are very reasonable for what I have to work with. I fully realize that I won't be in the perfect environment - I just want to make the best out of what I have! It's definitely going to be an improvement from my previous space (described in my first post), so I'm already ahead of the game, right? 8)

Carpet is not easy to clean. For good quality vinyl flooring, it can be used for a long time. But for the bad type, it is not good. If much water is not splashed on the floor, bamboo flooring and laminate flooring are idea materials for your floor.