URG Studio

We remodeled an old video control room into a recording studio for our songwriting club. We have gotten some great recordings already, but we think there is room for improvement. The room is well isolated from the outside and the rest of the building, so we just need to worry about how they sound! I am a decent carpenter, and we have a fantastic woodworking and furniture building program at our school so we can build just about anything. I have local sources for homasote, roxul, and compressed fiberglass (we have been using duct board that we can get for free or cheap when it gets cut wrong :yahoo: ) We also live in the appalachian foothills of SE Ohio and have great, really cheap sources for kiln dried hardwood. Anyway our budget is flexible, but I am hoping to build the various components for the control room for around $2000, which I know is low, but if we need more, we will do another fundraiser! Our Control room is 2.41 meters wide, 6.5 meters long, and 4.4 meters tall. The top half has ventilation pipes, etc, and a grid for a ceiling at 2.43 meters up. There is one door in one of the short walls, and a large 3x .91m window with the two panes of glass at different angles looking into a large tracking room. The room is too narrow for an optimum space, similar to the container studios. I have adapted John's wonderful design for a small studio to fit our control room and have attached the sketchup file for you to look at. (It assumes that the cloud will be mounted under the ceiling grid, with plenty of room for hangers above!) I feel confident that I understand the basic concepts of the studio, but I have a few questions. 1) We have two different sets of monitors. I would rather soffit mount our JBL 4311b speakers, but am wondering if I can make the soffit wide enough to accommodate them. we also have some Alesis M1 passives though I am considering upgrading to Tannoy 601ps. Either way, we would like to use both sets of speakers. If I soffit mount the JBL's I have stands for the Nearfields, but if we soffit mount the smaller speakers, where would be the best place for the JBL's? 2) I would appreciate some help calculating the proper angles for the soffits. The tracking room is for another day, but If you would like to look at a sketchup for the whole studio it is available in the 3d warehouse (I know you would rather not have links, but this model is very detailed, and over 2 MB) http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=774386576323dd1aa2956231ce04a6e1&prevstart=0 I apologize profusely for reposting this. :horse: I am a newby! I have learned much from reading through the forum over the past week and I think this is a better presentation of our issues. Thank you SO much for a wonderful forum.

Hi Scott, and Welcome! :) Sorry I didn't get around to answering your other threads: Been busy lately, and there don't seem to be any other moderators active at present, so I kind of have my hands full trying to answer everyone! Yours was one of those that slipped through the cracks... :oops:

I would rather soffit mount our JBL 4311b speakers

A word of caution about those: I just did some research on them, and it seems they are designed to be mounted "upside down", meaning with the woofer above the tweeter, rather than the more conventional "tweeter above woofer". That places the acoustic axis much lower than for a traditional design, so the speaker will have to be mounted higher up in the soffit. It might also cause problems with reflections from the desk surface, and "shadowing" from things on top of the desk, such as computer screens, etc.

but am wondering if I can make the soffit wide enough to accommodate them.

IT should be possible: You might have to fiddle with the angles, make the front section between the soffits narrower, adjust the design of your slot walls, etc., but it should be possible to make it work, with some trial and error. Speaking of he slot walls: them see to be at the first reflection points! You should probably fix that.

I would appreciate some help calculating the proper angles for the soffits.

The general rule (which can be broken!) is to set up the room with your ears at 38% of the room depth (front wall to back wall), and work from there. The acoustic axes of the speakers should intersect at an angle of 60 degrees, a few inches behind your head, and the distance from your head to each speaker should be about the same as the distance between the speakers. (Actually, it will be a bit less.) If you can't make that work, then try adjusting the intersect angle: you can go up to as much as 90° if necessary, but there are consequences...

If I soffit mount the JBL's I have stands for the Nearfields, but if we soffit mount the smaller speakers, where would be the best place for the JBL's?

Good question! I don't see much place where you could put those... - Stuart -

Thanks Stuart!

A word of caution about those

T should be possible: You might have to fiddle with the angles, make the front section between the soffits narrower, adjust the design of your slot walls, etc., but it should be possible to make it work, with some trial and error.

I am now leaning away from soffit mounting the JBLs. As I thought about what you said here, I realized I do all of my actual mixing on the M1s anyway, I use the JBLs to check bass levels or to blend in to add bass when I am playing music to listen to or for visitors, so I am wondering if I can get away with hanging them up near the ceiling or even putting them in the back of the room? We inherited two pairs of the JBLs so I already have a pair in the tracking room as well! I like my M1s, but they are pretty old, and beat up and the tweeter covers are dented. I have about $200-500 budgeted to replace them. If you were looking for speakers in that range specifically to soffit mount them, which ones would you buy. I want more detail than I get with the M1s. The Tannoys that I was looking at don't have a flat front. Other ones I have thought about are the Prodipe (Ribbon) or Mackie MR series.

Speaking of he slot walls: them see to be at the first reflection points! You should probably fix that.

I have wondered about that as well, but it comes straight out of John's design http://johnlsayers.com/Stuff/components.skp Did I change something that messed this up?

I have wondered about that as well, but it comes straight out of John's design

You'd have to check with John, but I'm not sure that that is actually a design for a room, but rather just a set of "things" that people might find useful in their rooms: The file is called "components"...

I use the JBLs to check bass levels or to blend in to add bass when I am playing music to listen to or for visitors, so I am wondering if I can get away with hanging them up near the ceiling or even putting them in the back of the room?

I wouldn't put them behind you, unless they are actually part of a 5.1 setup (or other surround setup). You might be able to get away with mounting them up high and angled down steeply, as long as you don't plan to use them for critical listening. If you put them up near the ceiling, for example, you'll be getting additional bass boost from the corner (radiating into quarter space, instead of half space), plus the tilt angle will have to be well beyond the recommendations, with all the accompanying issues. But if it is just for adding some bass and occasional casual listening, that might work. But I wouldn't try to mix on those.

If you were looking for speakers in that range specifically to soffit mount them, which ones would you buy. I want more detail than I get with the M1s.

Hand's down, no doubt about it, if I were in your position I'd sell one set of JBLs and use the money to buy a nice pair of Adams with a good sub. Maybe a pair of A7x or A8x plus a Sub-10 for a room like that. You'd have change left over from that deal too, I reckon, and really great speakers, with all the detail and clarity you could ever ask for. There's a reason the Adam's are fast becoming the de-facto new standard. Soffit mount the Adams, and keep the M1's for checking your mixes. But that's just me: others might have different opinions. I'm not telling you what to buy! Just saying that that's what I would do, in a similar situation. Another option might be a nice set of Genelec's. - Stuart -

i think this is on the right track. you'll want to build the corner soffits out the room corners so you maximize the trapping there. maybe angle part of the window with an opposing slat unit. the cloud will be good. the back corners will need trapping. any option to reshape the rooms? maybe open the side wall into the live room and create an angled CR and use the symmetry offsets from that to create a machine closet.

Stuart,

You'd have to check with John

I sent a message to John asking about the first reflections. I'll let you know what he said 8)

I'd sell one set of JBLs and use the money to buy a nice pair of Adams

Selling stuff that the university owns is tricky. People suddenly get very possessive of stuff that hash't been used in twenty years if you try to change things! LOL. My brother in law offered to buy the JBLs when he was installing a new sound system in the main auditorium several years ago, and they wouldn't sell them. But you never know! The Adams are the speakers I really want! I don't know if the university will go for it though...... but you have given me the courage to ask! Glenn, Thanks for joining in :yahoo:

the back corners will need trapping.

I am working on a design for trapping on the back wall with a combination corner trap/ small closet to store mics, cables and stands, and a file cabinet/ tiny office area for our student run record company.(We could also put the computers in there). I also have some instruments I have to store for my string methods class. There really isn't enough room for everything, but the control room has a secure lock with a different key. The live room is the same key as the master lock for the whole building, and there are way too many keys floating around out there.

any option to reshape the rooms?

I wish! But the walls are pretty solid concrete block, and I think we are stuck with them. On the other hand, the studio already had three phase wiring, and is very quiet. The control room is also wired to the the auditorium so we can record in there as well! I think it can be a very nice studio for not a lot of money (which is good, since we don't have much :cry: ) The university is very excited about our songwriting club, but in this time of economic travail, there just isn't enough to go around. Hopefully things will get better soon.