New Basement Studio Design - 3 Years of Research Please help

First, I want to thank John for starting this forum and all the knowledgeable members that take the time to help others with their designs. Also I wanted to point out that after nearly 4 years of research I now recognize how unique John's designs are. Thanks John for making some of your work available. Previous Post: I posted a design referencing a small control room update in 2009. I received some great help from Stuart and though the scope has changed from control room to a complete basement remodel, I plan to use some of his advice. Prior to the start of the studio build, I needed to complete many long awaited upgrades to the house before completely closing off the ceilings and walls in the basement. Most of the upgrades are done and with the exception of some plumbing and electrical. I'll be starting on the basement soon and would like to iron out the studio design with your help. Here's a link to the post I submitted in 2009. http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13554&hilit=ducharme Here's a link to the current SKP file 17MB http://tacomacoin.com/WayneD-Final-Basemen-Studio6-29-12.skp Overview: I've been a musician since I was a boy and I just turned 55. I also have 3 sons that all play and we've collaborated on several projects over the years. My dream is to have a small studio that I can record, mix and master without the room/rooms making this process nearly impossible. If I am able to create such a space I want to invest in a new Pro Tools HDX rig, better mics, instruments and some of the new analog outboard gear that looks very cool. I now know that if the room isn't right no investment in gear will help. I'm willing to hire someone to improve my design if that's what it takes. Dimensions: The control room and drum rooms are not rectangle so I used rough inside measurements: Control Room 141” x 157” Drum Room 117” x 106” Vocal Booth 95” x 63” Isolation: Since we record live sometimes with acoustic drums and amplified guitars we'll need to isolate the studio rooms as much as possible from the upstairs and also the neighbors. We used to have the drums in what is labeled as the “Man Cave” and put insulation and 3/4” particle board on the windows with no complaints from the neighbors but still lots of bass bleed above on the main floor living room. Musical Interests: We'll be recording Alt Rock, Gypsy Punk, Blues, Country, Electronic, Jazz and Gospel and Acoustic and Soundtrack. Design: I downloaded and evaluated many of the SketchUp designs John has generously made available. I've also read John's recording manual and reviewed all of his projects. I also followed many of the deign projects in the forum through the build process – very helpful! My project uses the John's basic design elements from many of his smaller studio designs. I've kept the important dimensions as close to the basic original designs as possible. I've attached a SketchUp file for evaluation. I hope to hear from the guys that really know the design process to either suggest improvements, a completely different design or to give this design a thumbs up. I hope to pass on the final “approved” version to others once that bridge has been crossed so thank you in advance for your help. Ceiling: The 12” floor joists for the main floor are 81” above the basement cement floor. Stuart suggested in my previous post to use the drywall up inside the joist and then fill with insulation. I plan to put two layers of 5/8 sheetrock with backer rod and caulking. Fill with insulation and then attach acoustic channel to the joists and mount 2 layers of 5/8 to the channel. I thought about genie mounts for the channel to improve the STC ratings but it would cost me more than an inch of height. I am researching how to install flooring with as little of the height used as possible. Questions: Would I benefit from using more of the space between the left side control room wall and the outer wall making the broadband slat resonator deeper to address lower frequencies? If so, would I try to do the same on the right side though it is not as long due to the door? Any recommendations are welcome and I appreciate your help! Has anyone submitted and test results for similar room designs that may help to support or not support this design? Given the space and the need to enter from the Man Cave to the next room and on to the third room, does anyone have a different design that would utilize the space better? (please note that the man cave section is off the table)

have a good environment in composing your own songs.

What makes you think he wants to compose his own songs in there? And why are you making pointless comments on threads all over the forum? - Stuart -

Hi ducharme, Very nice plan you have there. Im sure stuart will be-able to comment on this better than i can (when he's finished with the latest random poster). Couple of things jump out. 1)The iso both doest appear from the image to be a decoupled on the one side. 2) Are you planning to make super doors? just wondering if it mite aid you to have a two door system for the drum both, so you have a complete 2 leaf system. (once again, stuart will know more about the difference in isolation and mite have already talked about it previously). looking forward to construction pic's :D

Yes super door. I have Rod Gervais book and liked the idea of the single door. It has some issues but Rod seems to prefere them and claims that a two leaf system does not compromise much in isolation when done properly. I'm open to the two door plan as well if the benefits outweigh the use of space and cumbersome usability. Yes, I'm interested in what Stuart has to say about the design. Thanks

Hi again! Welcome back! :) In a hurry today, so just a few quick comments:

Dimensions: The control room and drum rooms are not rectangle so I used rough inside measurements: Control Room 141” x 157” Drum Room 117” x 106” Vocal Booth 95” x 63”

You forgot the height! I was going to check your ratios, but can't do that without the height! Or maybe I missed it...

I am researching how to install flooring with as little of the height used as possible.

Just use the existing concrete floor! Great acoustically. No other flooring required. But if the concrete is ugly, or not in good condition, or you don't like the idea of concrete, then lay laminate flooring on it. Takes up about half an inch, total. Or even less.

Here's a link to the current SKP file 17MB

You forgot to purge it! After purging, it is only about 4 MB... :)

Would I benefit from using more of the space between the left side control room wall and the outer wall making the broadband slat resonator deeper to address lower frequencies?

I think you are wasting space by splaying the entire wall. Just splay the first section, the front part, up to roughly where your head is. That's where you need it most, and will allow you to get a much better angle on that part, improving your chances of getting a true RFZ design, which you do not have at present. So you cannot use slot walls for the front section of the walls, as they are at your first reflection points. That area needs to be absorptive, not reflective, unless you go for true RFZ. So I would flatten out your side walls from the mix position backwards, and increase the angle of the side walls from the mix position forwards. You should be able to get RFZ, I think: I didn't test it, but just eye-balling it, I think it will work. Also, angle your slot walls a bit extra, in addition to the angle of the actual inner-leaf isolation wall. In other words, make the space behind the slats themselves a bit deeper at the front of the room, and a bit shallower at the rear: that makes the slots more broadband, lass tuned to specific frequencies, which is good. You also need to clean up some of your construction details! :!: :) For example, what on earth is this? :) Ummm.... :) Wish I had more time, but that should get you thinking a bit! - Stuart -

Thanks for taking the time Stuart! 1) Height is listed in the Ceiling section (should have been with the room dimensions) 81” cement to floor joist. I'll post them with the new design. 2) I like the idea of laminate flooring. If it will go over the cement directly - I'll check into underlayment options. 3) I did purge and stumbled onto it by accident but maybe I uploaded the wrong file. I'll get that right on the next rev. 4) I had several questions about splaying walls and loosing that much space in a small room. I thought I was safe going with one of John's designs and figured it would work. I'll work on a new design that incorporates your suggestions. I also have Alton's book that covers RFZ in detail. I'm going to have another look at that and see how it would fit with your suggestions. Lastly, I don't know what happened to that section of the design, quite sloppy. I've still got much to learn! I'm excited about getting the design ironed out. I'll get the next rev up as soon as possible. Thanks again!

I created a quick top version of the control room and drum room. Mainly to check with you and see if I was on the right track before I put more work into the model. I included the drum room as an example of the dimensions. I did look at the Alton's Sound Studio on a Budget book and was able to get close to his example of an RTZ top view layout. I also tried to do some dimension averages to enter in to the room mode calc. The results are as expected with the average, having the length and width modes close to each other. Do you think these modes are representative of this design, or does the average leave room for significant swings either closer or farther apart? I remember John saying that he does not use rectangle room mode calculations in his designs as he does not design rectangle rooms. One of the other main reasons I choose to use on of John's designs that worked in a room that was wider than it was long. I'm also loosing lots of slot wall that I hoped would help tune the room once built. Any thoughts about that? I couldn't find my notes on room ratios so that part is blank as you said you were going to figure them out for me. Drum Room 119 7/8” average with 106 1/8” = width of 113”” Length is 100 room ratio is @ ( ) Control Room average – 119” with 153” = width 136” length is 129” ratio is @ ( ) See the Room Mode Calculator images below as well. Thanks again Stuart!