Studio Build NSW Double Leaf wall with Green Glue Help?

Started by Dush1123 on 8 June 2012. 1 reply.

Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 17619.

Hello Guys. Like to start by saying that I have been an observer of this forum for a while now, and am very impressed at the knowledge on here. Alright so here is our scenario. We've started a build (now wishing we had reached out for advice on here before we started) in a New York style Art Warehouse space that measures aprox 15m x 9m in Redfern NSW. Our aim is to end up with 3 rooms to be used for songwriting and production, and a bit of mixing (just rough mixes that can be sent as a reference to the mix guys). Each room will be working at moderate levels, working in the 85Db - 100Db ish levels. No loud instruments only stuff we record is POP vocals, some electric guitar running through an interface into logic (so no amps or anything like that), and also some acoustic guitar. All our drums are programmed so no live drums either. We basically work with most of the mainstream Australian pop artists. Our only acoustic challenges for the rooms are for them to be good enough to get good vocals that can be sent of to mixing. Here is a picture of the space (I'm standing in where room 3 will be, directly in front is where room 1 is, and to the left is room 2 :
Image not preserved: Warehouse space.jpg
This is a sketch up of what the end result should be (there is a couple of changes that we have made since this, such as door placement etc.., to lazy to make the changes atm, also doesn't play a part in the questions that I have):
Image not preserved: Birdseye Whole.jpg
Here is a labeled sketch up of the of the rooms (Letters correspond to the walls so you guys understand what I'm talking about later):
Image not preserved: Labled Birdseye room 1.jpg
Sketch up of the framing for room 1 measures 6m x 3.5m:
Image not preserved: General Room Frame 1.jpg
Read my reply post to this it makes more sense Alright so my problem lies here, in soundproofing the rooms, from each other and also the neighboring business. Our approach is to double layer the Gyprock 13mm for all the walls and ceilings with Green glue in between (1 Tupe per 2400 x 1200 sheet). All the framing is done with F5 90mm x 45m pine with R3 insulation packed in between. I'm concerned that this approach is not sufficient enough for what we are doing... also realized that with walls C and E we are in theory creating a 3 leaf wall. So was wondering if that was going to be a problem. My solution is to remove the outside gyprock on all the walls, so walls C and E no become a double leaf wall and always as planned to do the double layered green glue on all interior wall of each room. This in theory should give a STC 60 for walls C and E. The remaining walls A, D, H, & G to build another frame around and only gyprock the outside (all visible sides) hence creating double leafed walls all the way around and . Walls B and F sit right up against concrete walls so decided to not be too fussed about them. So let me know what you guys think and what I should change or do. (also the Yelowish colored areas are just fabric panels with insulation packed inside, and not actual walls)
Image not preserved: Room Walls.jpg
For the time being here is a progress picture so far... this is room 1 all framed up (this was taken on my phone. We have a collection of photos on my camera which i dont have with me right now.
Image not preserved: Frame room1.jpg
Hope you guys can help
I feel that I wasn't clear enough in the description of my concern. So just trying to clarify things. Firstly Room Dimensions: Room 1: 6000mm x 3500mm Room 2: 3000mm x 3500mm Room 3: 2500mm x 4500mm (decided to make that room longer by coming into the storage space) ASSUMED PROBLEM: So as originally planned from walls C to E would have been... Gyprock -> Green Glue -> Gyprock -> Stud 90mm x 45mm (with insulation) -> Gyprock -> Airspace (250mm, Due to existing pillars) -> Gyprock -> Stud (with insulation) -> Gyprock -> Green Glue -> Gyprock. My concern is that this in theory is a triple leaf wall. From all the reading I have done here and also in 'Google' research, I believe that this is a problem. I understand that when there is a large airspace that this problem is not too big of a deal. In this scenario the airspace that I can have between the two walls is 250mm, though this is larger than in most cases I've read about, it feels like its not enough and should not be avoided as it will overall become a triple leaf wall. For the other walls A,D,H, & G Plan was to just go Gyprock -> Green Glue -> Gyprock -> Stud 90mm(with insulation) -> Gyprock -> Green Glue -> Gyprock. All framing being 90mm x 45mm hence having an airspace of 90mm, though it being a double leafed wall. My Solution for the ASSUMED PROBLEM: Remove the middle layers of Gyprock between walls C and E. So now it would be: Gyprock -> Green Glue -> Gyprock -> Stud (with insulation) -> Airspace (250mm, Due to existing pillars, which now simple gives more airspace) -> Stud (with insulation) -> Gyprock -> Green Glue -> Gyprock. This gives an airspace of about 430mm (actually about 480mm, because framing sits a little inside of the pillars) between those walls. It should solves my third leaf issue, and gives me a large airspace which hopefully is more effective than the previous setup. For walls A,D,H & G, build a second set of framing on the outside of the pillars maintaining an 430mm airspace all the way around. Then as planned double layering all Gyprock with Green glue sandwiched in between... So now becoming Gyprock -> Green Glue -> Gyprock -> Stud (with insulation) -> Airspace (250 mm) -> Stud (with insulation) -> Gyprock -> Green Glue -> Gyprock From here on there is a minimum 2000mm distance to the next walls (which are concrete/Brick walls) then another 1200mm corridor space followed a concrete/brick wall and neighboring businesses (Wall A side has a quite ally way street and then the next building). So my questions: 1) Did I have a problem to begin with? 2) If so, does my solution solve the issue, if not, what would be a better solution? 3) Do these designs give us enough isolation between each room? For example to be recording vocals (just pop, nothing fancy :P ) in two rooms and in the other tracking some acoustic guitar, while someone is cooking in the kitchen and another is on the phone in the lounge area. Not expecting for it to be dead quite, but getting everything down to a murmur would be great. 4) If everything is done to my solution, how should the ceiling area be tackled, between the pillars (Aprox 480mm airspace)? Treat it as if it were a room, with two layers of gyprock with green glue and cover the 'roof' side with 19mm particle board? The ceiling joists are 140mm with insulation, so hoping that there is enough airspace for it to be not a concern. A note for anyone conserned about mass, we can always add more mass to the interior and exterior walls with a layer of green glue and gyprock in the future if we are having problems. Right now its just getting it right (airspace, wall leafs etc) to get by. We're not on the tightest of budgets but should be kept in mind we have $20 000 for all 3 rooms to be done. We have so far spent about $5000 on all gyprock, framing pine, insulation, 48 tubes of green glue, 12 tubes of green glue sealant and electrical for Room 1. We are ordering materials and building in 2 phases (Phase 1: room 1, followed by Phase 2: Room 2&3) as we don't have the floor space for all the materials along with the equipment and furniture that we already have there. Hope this clears things up now, and gives you guys a better understanding of what we are doing. Thanks in advance