New user, New Build, New start.

Hi, I'm new here and have a couple questions and looking for a little feed back. First off, a little back ground. I have been recording bands for the past 15 years, lots of demos, some albums and a few commercial releases. I have build two makeshift studios in the past that I have managed to pay the bills with. I now work at a pretty nice place here in Austin. I have a few pro studios I can use if the band has the budget, but I would like to build something in the new house my wife and I just bought so I can charge much less to those working man bands. I'm looking to build something permanent and want it to be my swan song as far as studios I have built:) want it to have a pro feel, but yet keep the rock and roll vibe my past places have had! The house has a converted two car garage with two large shops attached to it. About 650sft. The ceilings are 8ft 6inch in garage area (live room) and 8 sloping to about 7 in the shop section. I have a good friend who's band I record who is a contractor, so I can get a lot more done with less cost as we will barter. It is located on a corner of a cul de sac with the closest neighbor being 100 ft away at the least, could be more? I record a lot of loud music. Rock, punk, garage. But also do quite a bit of country and Chicano soul as well. I like to record live to tape and make use of the room. Ideally I like a room where all the band can play together and have a couple ISO booths for amps and maybe a vocal booth? Ok now a few questions. Is it worth it to try to raise the ceiling, or are other options to getting a bigger drum sound with the 8'6" ceiling? I have thought of a few things. Maybe just exposing the joists? Cutting between the joists and "boxing" in a few 8-12 inch sections, then lineing them with 2" OC 703 basically a makeshift defusser/absorber thing in the ceiling. Just a beer idea:D Or is my best bet to leave the blown in insulation in the attic and add more and doubleup the Sheetrock with 5/8ths? Really don't want to drop the ceiling anymore than it is. I have a budget of about 3k for material to start. Want to get the live/drum room done first so I can start practicing there ASAP with my band. I have attaches 3 designs. First one is how the rooms sit now, 2nd one is the total space available to build, and the 3rd show where the bathroom may go (its in red), I put sinks where the washer drawer are currently. The one title "floorplan" is the design I came up with. I hope I have not left anything out. Thanks for your time. Ryan

Hi Ryan, and Welcome! :) Sounds like you have a nice project in mind, and a reasonable space for doing it. A few random comments:

I have a budget of about 3k for material to start.

That's probably not realistic, unless your contractor buddy is prepared to barter for materials too. 3k for over 600 square feet implies les than US$ 5 per square foot! :shock: I'd re-think that, or do one hell of good job at a barter negotiation! :). Anyway, on that budget your options are quite limited. You certainly don't have enough for flooring, for example, so your floor will just be the bare concrete slab. Actually, that's a good thing: a concrete slab is a great floor, acoustically. And you can always lay something like laminate flooring later, if you feel like, once the money starts flowing in.

want it to have a pro feel, but yet keep the rock and roll vibe my past places have had!

Yup! That seems to be what we all want! Not a problem. The acoustics can be great, and the decoration and finishing is up to you.

I record a lot of loud music. Rock, punk, garage. But also do quite a bit of country and Chicano soul as well. ... the closest neighbor being 100 ft away at the least,

OK, so you need some isolation, but not extreme, probably. But what about noise coming the other way? Rain, wind, thunder, cars, trains, helicopters flying over, as well jet planes, cars arriving / leaving. Phones / TV / radio / dogs / cats /etc. There's about a million and seventy eight things like that, that could trash your perfect once-in-a-lifetime take, or send your customers elsewhere, so you might want to take those into consideration when you come up with the number for how much isolation you need.

I like to record live to tape

When you say "live to tape", do you mean physical tape? As in a 24 track machine, or something like that? Or are you speaking metaphorically, and referring to virtual "tape" in a a DAW? The reason I ask is because multi-track analog tape decks are noisy, use a lot of power, and have special needs, in terms of "care and feeding". But I didn't see a machine room on your floor plan.

Ideally I like a room where all the band can play together and have a couple ISO booths for amps and maybe a vocal booth?

with 650 ft2, that should be doable. But probably not on a budget of 3k.

Is it worth it to try to raise the ceiling,

If you can, yes, but your budget is very tight, so that's probably out of the question.

or are other options to getting a bigger drum sound with the 8'6" ceiling? I have thought of a few things. Maybe just exposing the joists?

8´6" isn't terrible, but extra height for drums is always better, within reason. However, exposing the joists means that you lose isolation. You haven't come up with the number for how much you need yet, but I'm pretty darn sure that it will be more than you can get with a single-leaf isolation plan! (And probably also more than you can get with that original ceiling as-is). In fact, if your isolation needs turn out to be what I suspect they will be, then your final finished ceiling height will be somewhat lower than 8'6"...

Cutting between the joists and "boxing" in a few 8-12 inch sections, then lineing them with 2" OC 703 basically a makeshift defusser/absorber thing in the ceiling. Just a beer idea:D

Exactly: it sure is a "beer idea"! :)

Or is my best bet to leave the blown in insulation in the attic and add more and doubleup the Sheetrock with 5/8ths? Really don't want to drop the ceiling anymore than it is.

You might have to, but that will only become clear once you figure out how much isolation you need. That's the key to everything. And just doubling-up on sheet rock is not going to help much unless you also decouple and damp. Adding an extra layer of drywall is going to gain you no more than 6 dB of additional isolation, MAXIMUM, and probably more like 3 or 4. That's barely even noticeable. (6 dB is the theoretical gain from doubling the mass of a single-leaf partition, under perfect conditions).

Want to get the live/drum room done first so I can start practicing there ASAP with my band.

OK, but you still need to have the entire plan in place before you start building. Once construction starts, then all your options are off the table and you are locked in, even if the overall design is lousy. For example, if you later figure out that you could have had a better iso booth or control room layout by moving one wall of the drum booth a bit, well, too bad. Can't be done. so the entire plan has to be complete before you pick up a hammer for the first time.

I have attaches 3 designs. ... The one title "floorplan" is the design I came up with.

Nothing is marked! It's hard to figure out what we are looking at there. I assume that the long room on the right is the control room, and the strange-shaped one on the left is the live room, but the others are a mystery... There is also no isolation shown at all, anywhere on that drawing, so I'm guessing that this is just a very rough sketch of the concept, with no details yet, correct? What ratio are you basing the live room on, and what's the basic design concept? There's a major, glaring flaw in that plan as it stands: the length is shown as 22'2", and the width as 11'1" :shock: :ahh: :!: That room will have major modal issues. Was that an oversight? Or are you hoping that the final internal dimensions (after isolation) will fix that? Also, since nothing is shown, it's hard to figure out what the layout would be like. But the only feasible layout would be to have the room facing towards the right, and the rear of the CR facing the live room. Wouldn't it have been better to have the room facing left, directly into the live room, without that other "room" in between, and glass in the walls, so you have clear sight lines into the live room? It might be an idea to re-think that. I'm not sure how you like to record, but for me it is important to have a good view of the live room, and of the booths as well, if possible. But the good thing is that you have a decent space to work with: 650 ft2 is good enough for a decent control room, a decent live room, and a couple of booths. Sounds like a nice project! - Stuart -

Hey Stuart, thanks for the reply. The $3k is just a starting point for framing, and yes the contractor will be helping some with materials, as he and I are good friends. I have done many records for his band and getting this studio going is just as important to him, as it is I. Though I will be paying for most of the materials this will be an ongoing project. As far as spl mesurements, once we move in ill be able to provide those. Thankfully, I currently have a studio to work in, but want something of my own again. I onow you said to have The whole design done, but I'm going to go about this studio in a little different way, as I would like to do the live room/ isos first, as I will be tearing down the two shops and building a proper control room in the future with a slab foundation and higher ceilings. This being said the live room may become the control room someday, so I may want to keep it a rectangle in shape? But all the new building will be a few years off. The control room will be "makeshift" till then. I do record mainly on a 24 track analog machine. It's currently in the control room at another studio and does not bother me at all with noise. The Mac pro is louder that my otari mtr 90. I may make a separate machine room/ tape storage in rear of control room. I have come up with a much better design based on your suggestions, and the idea that the rooms may change their purpose in the future. But I can upload it from my iPad. And on 4g only. I'm living in a friends hunting cabin in the woods till we can move into new house next week. I'll know a lot more after I move in. Thanks so much for your time and I am greatfull for all the help, this is a great forum. Ryan