How much isolation do I need?

Hi all, I've never built a studio before, but I am really willing to do it now. Not because I want to be an engineer or anything, but I am a musician and a producer and I really need a project studio so I can make my business grow. Anyways, I live in Sao Paulo, Brazil, and in the region I want to set my studio it's very hard and costly to get a house that is not detached (not sure if that's the right term, but I mean a house that shares a wall with another one). I mean, it seems like 90% of the houses have this configuration. As I am not buying a house, but renting one, I was wondering if renting a house that shares a wall is a real option or it's just too risky. Here's what I need: 1- I want to be able to work 24/7 without disturbing my neighbours 2 - I want to be able to record drums, bass amps, guitar amps, vocal etc. separately 3 - I want to make the room available for rehearsal if I am not recording. My doubts are: Will a double stud drywall configuration all around be enough? Will I need a floating floor if I build on the second floor (does it make any difference if it's built on the ground floor? Usually, the houses I am looking at have 15 cm brick walls and the floor is concrete. Basically, I need some help figuring out what kind of isolation I will need to invest in, to see if that is feasible or not. I am attaching a simple floor plan of one of the houses I am interested in. The studio would be on the second floor. Please help, thank you. http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/7126/studioq.jpg Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Hi "tux", and Welcome! :)

I was wondering if renting a house that shares a wall is a real option or it's just too risky.

It might be possible, depending on a few factors. As you've already figured out, if you share the same structure as the house next door, then that does have some disadvantages. But there are ways of dealing with that, if you are prepared to spend the time, effort and money to do it right. If you are renting the place, then it might also be an idea to think about building your studio in a modular way, so that you can take it apart in large pieces if you ever move, and perhaps re-use those pieces in the new place you move to.

1- I want to be able to work 24/7 without disturbing my neighbours 2 - I want to be able to record drums, bass amps, guitar amps, vocal etc. separately 3 - I want to make the room available for rehearsal if I am not recording.

Those are pretty tough goals you are setting there! Drums and bass are the hardest of all instruments to isolate: Drums are the loudest (easily 115 dB), and bass puts out a lot of low-frequency energy. Municipal noise regulations almost always set a lower level for noise at night, which means you need more isolation than if you were just going to use it in the day.

Will a double stud drywall configuration all around be enough?

Yes, it can be, if you build it right. A good double-stud and drywall build can get you very good isolation, if you have enough space to leave a large air gap in the middle, enough layers of drywall, and top quality seals. Your weak point will probably not be the the wall itself, but rather the doors, windows, HVAC and electrical work.

Will I need a floating floor if I build on the second floor

Building on the second floor is never a good idea, especially if you have the option of building on the ground floor. Second floor builds mean that you do not have a damped floor under you, and there is a large risk that noise (especially impact noise) will get into the building structure, and be heard easily everywhere. It is much better to build on the ground. You might be able to deal with that problem with a floating floor, but floating a floor correctly is not easy, and is not cheap.

(does it make any difference if it's built on the ground floor?

Yes, it makes a BIG difference. If your floor is on the ground, then you have the entire Planet Earth as your damping. That's a LOT of damping, and for free!

Usually, the houses I am looking at have 15 cm brick walls and the floor is concrete.

Brick walls and concrete floor is a good start, provided that the concrete is on the ground. If you already have brick walls, then you do not need double-stud walls: you only need single-stud walls (except for internal walls, of course; those will still need to be double-stud). You only need to add one extra leaf a few inches away from those brick walls to get good isolation.

The studio would be on the second floor.

Then it will be expensive! You will need more damping, and more mass, than if it were in the ground floor. A concrete slab on the second floor is basically a drum head: It is a membrane stretched tight across an air cavity (the first floor). It will resonate (vibrate) at certain frequencies, and will also easily transmit impact sound, such as from drums. Second floor studios can be done: one of my customers here in Santiago did that, many years ago, but they spent a fortune to do it. And when they left that building and move to a new place several years later, they built their new studios on the GROUND floor, and moved other things upstairs to the second floor. They saved a lot of money like that! - Stuart -

Hi Stuart, Thanks for your extensive response. I appreciate that. So, a few things are more clear for me now, as to what kind of house to look for. So I will be looking for some place I can build on the ground floor, and that's for sure, for the reasons you mentioned. One thing I still don't understand though, is: if I am not using a floating floor, then the single stud (as the wall will probably be brick walls) touches the concrete floor? I am confused here, sorry but I don't seem to find this information. I never thought it was possible to have a modular isolation. Do you know of any projects like that so I can take a look and try to understand how to do that? That would be a good alternative to me. Thank you very much!

Soundman2020 wrote:

Hi "tux", and Welcome! :)

I was wondering if renting a house that shares a wall is a real option or it's just too risky.

It might be possible, depending on a few factors. As you've already figured out, if you share the same structure as the house next door, then that does have some disadvantages. But there are ways of dealing with that, if you are prepared to spend the time, effort and money to do it right. If you are renting the place, then it might also be an idea to think about building your studio in a modular way, so that you can take it apart in large pieces if you ever move, and perhaps re-use those pieces in the new place you move to.

1- I want to be able to work 24/7 without disturbing my neighbours 2 - I want to be able to record drums, bass amps, guitar amps, vocal etc. separately 3 - I want to make the room available for rehearsal if I am not recording.

Those are pretty tough goals you are setting there! Drums and bass are the hardest of all instruments to isolate: Drums are the loudest (easily 115 dB), and bass puts out a lot of low-frequency energy. Municipal noise regulations almost always set a lower level for noise at night, which means you need more isolation than if you were just going to use it in the day.

Will a double stud drywall configuration all around be enough?

Yes, it can be, if you build it right. A good double-stud and drywall build can get you very good isolation, if you have enough space to leave a large air gap in the middle, enough layers of drywall, and top quality seals. Your weak point will probably not be the the wall itself, but rather the doors, windows, HVAC and electrical work.

Will I need a floating floor if I build on the second floor

Building on the second floor is never a good idea, especially if you have the option of building on the ground floor. Second floor builds mean that you do not have a damped floor under you, and there is a large risk that noise (especially impact noise) will get into the building structure, and be heard easily everywhere. It is much better to build on the ground. You might be able to deal with that problem with a floating floor, but floating a floor correctly is not easy, and is not cheap.

(does it make any difference if it's built on the ground floor?

Yes, it makes a BIG difference. If your floor is on the ground, then you have the entire Planet Earth as your damping. That's a LOT of damping, and for free!

Usually, the houses I am looking at have 15 cm brick walls and the floor is concrete.

Brick walls and concrete floor is a good start, provided that the concrete is on the ground. If you already have brick walls, then you do not need double-stud walls: you only need single-stud walls (except for internal walls, of course; those will still need to be double-stud). You only need to add one extra leaf a few inches away from those brick walls to get good isolation.

The studio would be on the second floor.

Then it will be expensive! You will need more damping, and more mass, than if it were in the ground floor. A concrete slab on the second floor is basically a drum head: It is a membrane stretched tight across an air cavity (the first floor). It will resonate (vibrate) at certain frequencies, and will also easily transmit impact sound, such as from drums. Second floor studios can be done: one of my customers here in Santiago did that, many years ago, but they spent a fortune to do it. And when they left that building and move to a new place several years later, they built their new studios on the GROUND floor, and moved other things upstairs to the second floor. They saved a lot of money like that! - Stuart -