Basement studio contruction Detroit Area

Hi! I recently moved into a new house where I will be building a recording studio in the full basement. It has a concrete floor and poured concrete foundation walls and has walls that are finished but not decoupled or insulated. I do professional work as a producer/engineer and musician so I need a space that is as good as it can get. I need to have a control room with great mixing/mastering acoustics as well as a live or dead tracking room that will work for everything including drums. I also want another isolation booth for vocals or amplifiers. It would be nice to keep the current bathroom and wet bar, but the priorities are having a great control room and live/dead room with the right acoustics. I also only have a budget of around $6,000 US for MATERIALS (I have free labor and planning from a friend who is an exquisite builder) I am also willing to do this project in stages for budget reasons – If I need to hold off on building a new bathroom because the current one might need to be torn down, as well as building the vocal booth, that is fine. But the control room and live/dead room are an immediate must have. I would like a decent amount of isolation in both the control room and the live/room room, but neither need to be dead quiet. I mix at around 87 db sometimes a bit less or more. And again, the acoustics have to be great for mixing/mastering in the control room and good enough in the live/dead room to avoid bad modal and comb filtering problems. I am OK with adding reverb after tracking in order to achieve any live sound I am looking for. I have reached a point where I am frustrated in trying to decide the layout of the studio because there don’t seem to be any A+ options on where to build the control room or the live/dead room in the space that I have while also keeping the current bathroom and wet bar. You can see the general dimensions from my plans. Also, the ceiling heights are: Main space: 7’11” – from concrete floor to the floor board of above ceiling 7’4” – from concrete floor to the bottom of the above floor joists 6’7” – from concrete floor to the bottom of the ductwork Furnace wing: That little 18’ X 11’ wing on the furnace side of the basement drops a little lower: 7’8” – from concrete floor to the floor board of above ceiling 7’ – from concrete floor to the bottom of the above floor joists 6’2” – from the concrete floor to the bottom of the ductwork. First off, the ductwork. From my plans and photographs, you can see how this ductwork goes through the best space sqft-wise of the basement. Right now, it seems like the best thing to do is keep the control room on that side even though it would require the ceiling to be asymmetrical as I finish around the ductwork, unless I put the whole ceiling at around 6’4” which I don’t want to do. So probably an asymmetrical ceiling for the control room..fine. Because I’m pretty sure I need that space on the West side of basement for the live/dead room because I need the ceiling height. If I go with option 1 (see pictures below), the live/dead room is the same space as the lounge /wet bar area.. I don’t mind that too much actually, it would probably be the best option acoustically because I would be using the largest space possible for that application. but that means that I probably shouldn’t keep the existing wall finishing in that area because it is not decoupled. I don’t know if you can decouple walls that are already finished – furthermore, they are not insulated. So if I go with this option, probably a rebuild of the entire “live room / lounge general space” as described in option 1 to get it isolated properly. Pretty expensive material wise??, but remember I have free labor and planning from my builder friend. If I go with option 2, the live/dead room usable space inside of 1 foot walls is about 8’ X 10’4”. Not sure about the ceiling height, because it needs to be decently isolated but then acoustically treated to sound good inside that small room as well. I’m pretty sure I want a completely absorbent ceiling throughout whole control room AND live/dead room in any of my options, but what do you guys say? I am open to other layout options as well. But what do you guys think of everything so far? I am going to have plenty of other questions after we decide on a layout! Much thanks in advance for any help Eric

Hi Eric, and Welcome to the forum! :) Great first post, by the way: All the basic info is in there, complete yet concise. Wish we had more first posts like yours! OK, some general comments on your situation, in no particular order: First, there's a process, or sequence of steps that you can use to approach the design of your studio. Start with the simplest, most basic: How much isolation do you need? But this has to be objective, not subjective. Real-world numbers, in decibels, not guesses. You already partially answered one of the key questions here: "How loud are you?". We know that you'll be around 87 dB, peaking perhaps 95 to 100, in the control room. That's pretty normal. But what you DIDN'T say is how loud you'll be in the live room. You mentioned drums, which is one of the loudest and most difficult instruments to isolate, so assuming that this is your "loudest loud", we're talking about +/- 115 dB. So we have one side of the equation. The other side is "How quiet do you need to be?". There's two possibilities here on the limit for that number: one is other people, as in family and neighbors, and the other is legal limits. Your local municipality certainly has a noise ordinance, so it would be good for you to get a copy of that, so you understand what your legal obligations are at different times of day. You might be surprised at just how quite you have to be, legally, especially at night. Or going back to the first approach, perhaps you don't have a legal problem, but you still might have family/neighbor problems. So the ideal thing is to actually measure levels with a sound level meter, and find out what acceptable levels are for those around you. Now, simply subtract your "quiet" number from your "loud" number. That's how much isolation you need. For example, if it turns out that you need to be no more than 50 dB outside your studio in order to not disturb the peace, and you plan to record drums at 115 dB, then you need 65 dB of isolation. Or if you only plan to

mix

those drums at your normal 87 and never actually record live drums, then you only need 27 dB of isolation, which is roughly what an ordinary wall gives you anyway. But I'm betting that "ordinary wall" is nowhere near enough. So that should be your first order of business: find out "how loud" and "how quiet", so you can put a number on how much isolation you need. So what do you do with this number once you have it? Well, once you have it, you can now start looking for construction methods and materials that will give you this amount of isolation. There's a huge amount of research available on that, so you can simply look at the various options, find one that gives you the level you need and also fits your budget, and you have your first problem solved! The type of construction will also dictate the next step: space. Different methods of isolation need different thicknesses of walls and ceilings, and there are some techniques that allow you to maximize isolation while minimizing loss of height. There are also pitfalls to be wary of, such as the dreaded "three-leaf" wall, square rooms, etc. So now you can start the juggling game! :) Figuring out how to fit the type of construction that you NEED in order to obtain the isolation that you NEED, into the space that you have, without losing too much height, while also minimizing costs. Fun! :) Anyway, that's the basic approach. Put numbers on your isolation needs, and then find a method of getting that level of isolation.

I would like a decent amount of isolation in both the control room and the live/room room, but neither need to be dead quiet.

"Decent amount" is not a number! :) For me, "decent amount" could mean 80 dB, while for the next guy it could be 40 dB. You need to put a number on it.

And again, the acoustics have to be great for mixing/mastering in the control room and good enough in the live/dead room to avoid bad modal and comb filtering problems.

All rooms have modes. Small rooms have big modal problems. Big rooms don't. But "big" and "small" here are with reference to sound waves, so "big" means dozens of feet. So practically all home studios are small rooms, and have modal problems. The trick is to minimize modal problems by careful choice of room dimensions, and careful testing and treatment.

I have reached a point where I am frustrated in trying to decide the layout of the studio because there don’t seem to be any A+ options on where to build the control room or the live/dead room in the space that I have while also keeping the current bathroom and wet bar.

Welcome to the wonderful world of studio design! If you got to the "frustration because I can't make it fit" stage, then you are now fully qualified! That's always the issue with studio design: it's always trading off something for something else.

Main space: 7’11” – from concrete floor to the floor board of above ceiling 7’4” – from concrete floor to the bottom of the above floor joists 6’7” – from concrete floor to the bottom of the ductwork

That's pretty low! Which means you have some bad news coming your way: Trying to fit in a great mastering studio will not be easy! You need at least 1500 cubic feet of volume for a critical listening room. And a low ceiling is not good for acoustics in any case. That's doesn't mean you can't get a darn good room in there: it just means it won't be a world-class mastering room.

First off, the ductwork. From my plans and photographs, you can see how this ductwork goes through the best space sqft-wise of the basement.

So I'd suggest picking a room arrangement that helps you work around that, instead of fighting it. For example, an RFZ design often has an angled ceiling, so duck the front of your room under the ducts, while leaving the rear part as high as possible.

keep the control room on that side even though it would require the ceiling to be asymmetrical as I finish around the ductwork,

Bad idea. Control rooms MUST be symmetrical, and that's even more critical for a mastering room. You need the front half of the room at least, to be absolutely symmetrical. The rear isn't so important, but the front is critical.

unless I put the whole ceiling at around 6’4” which I don’t want to do.

Definitely not! You need to find a design that keeps your ceiling as high as you possibly can. With careful planning, you should be able to get a ceiling height of maybe 7'9" for your final inner-leaf ceiling. Allowing for treatment, you'll be down to around 7'6" or so.

So probably an asymmetrical ceiling for the control room..fine.

Nope. Not so fine.

Because I’m pretty sure I need that space on the West side of basement for the live/dead room because I need the ceiling height.

You need ceiling height in your control room too, if you want it to be a mastering studio! So what is the highest priority? Mastering, or tracking?

I don’t know if you can decouple walls that are already finished

Yes you can, possibly involved some "surgery" to those walls. Especially since those walls will not be your final inner-leaf walls.

Not sure about the ceiling height, because it needs to be decently isolated but then acoustically treated to sound good inside that small room as well.

As I mentioned a bit earlier, there are techniques you can use to maximize ceiling height while still getting good isolation. But treatment is a different matter: The smaller the room, the more treatment it needs.

I’m pretty sure I want a completely absorbent ceiling throughout whole control room AND live/dead room in any of my options,

Not necessarily. Partially absorbent, for sure. But maybe not totally. It all depends on your overall design concept. I'd suggest that you switch to doing your layouts in SketchUp: 3D has a huge advantage over 2D when it comes to trying to visualize how things fit in. - Stuart -

Hi Stuart, thanks for the great info. Let me respond to a few specifics:

So that should be your first order of business: find out "how loud" and "how quiet", so you can put a number on how much isolation you need.

I will run some tests and get back to you with some specifics. in reference to the ductwork

So I'd suggest picking a room arrangement that helps you work around that, instead of fighting it. For example, an RFZ design often has an angled ceiling, so duck the front of your room under the ducts, while leaving the rear part as high as possible.

What are the other types of "designs" other than a Reflection Free Zone?? ..because I am very aware of the need to treat the early and secondary reflections no matter what. For the control room arrangement, how about this: if i can move the air feed duct to the other side of the control room (see my new option 3 in this post), the room would be symmetrical. I would finish underneath the two ducts, so underneath would be about 6'5", but the middle of the room, probably about 2/3rds of the ceiling space, I could finish higher that that. You know better than I do what the approximate finished height will be based on the unfinished ceiling heights I have provided. If I can move the duct, I really like this option because now I have symmetry, I have a good section of the room over 7', and I have a total cubed feet amount of around 1500. How does that option sound?

With careful planning, you should be able to get a ceiling height of maybe 7'9" for your final inner-leaf ceiling. Allowing for treatment, you'll be down to around 7'6" or so.

How exactly would I do that? ..7'6" is still higher than the bottom of the joists. If the absolute top of the basement ceiling (the floorboards of the room above) is 7'11" and the floor joists come down to 7'4", are you suggesting doing something like packing some drywall in between the joists onto the floorboards above making that leaf thicker, then adding a few inches of insulation and finishing with a final layer of drywall attached to inside of the joists with resilient channels and sealing with caulk??

So what is the highest priority? Mastering, or tracking?

it's hard to say. I do professional work producing, mixing, mastering, and tracking. I know what I'm best at, but I still need to have all services given an equal opportunity for the best acoustical situation. "I don’t know if you can decouple walls that are already finished"

Yes you can, possibly involved some "surgery" to those walls. Especially since those walls will not be your final inner-leaf walls.

is the inner leaf the wall that you can touch being on the inside of the room or the one behind the rest of the wall? Also, can you check out that new design "TM - Option 3" I attached? I am considering removing the "closet" and the "bathroom" to make room for a larger live room. However, right above the doors into those rooms is the steel beam that is below the wooden floor joists. Does finishing around that and a support beam present an isolation challenge? Also, the amount of live room sq ft would go from about 133 to about 210 but with pole/steel steel beam/water pipe obstructions in the northwest corner. Is it worth it acoustically to do that? One question about the proper amount of wall leafs. So the fact is a double studded, double leaf wall with more than one layer of drywall on each side and insulation in between is the "best" option isolation wise. How does that work when putting the control room right next to the live room like I am planning on doing; rooms that both need isolation? So the only thing that should be between the control room space and the live room space is one double studded double leaf wall with insulation in the middle? ..cause adding two of those systems next to each other would be a quadruple leaf wall, which is worse than not even having it there right?

As I mentioned a bit earlier, there are techniques you can use to maximize ceiling height while still getting good isolation.

I'll look into that. I am in the middle of Rod Gervais' book so I'm sure I'll come across many options. Do you have a good low cost option that is simple to install?

I'd suggest that you switch to doing your layouts in SketchUp

hopefully the next layout picture will be in SketchUp :D