30x40 Space - HELP!?!

I've got a 30x40 out building to contend with... I'd like to add - somehow - a vocal iso to the design. The current structure has openings in the areas shown. There is one more on the "piano" room wall in the live space. I plan on filling that in. Room within room design is my goal. The mechanical room pretty much needs to stay where it is... I'm needing to bring power in somewhere, and that's about as colse as I can get to the house (source). The woodshop is a goal and not currently built. I'd NEVER use it when the studio is in use. If nothing else, it's potentially some more "air" between the outside and the live room. Pix are available. Thanx for any help or advise! Max

Divide that live room up. You have a VERY LARGE live room. I could fit a small orchestra in ther for recordinf. (15 to 20 pc from what I can see in your diagram) I have a room about 12x10 and I can fit an 8 pc string section in that room. So you have room to add a vocal room in there. Also bear in mind that you have a paralle wall situation in the live room as well. Bryan giles

I am quite new to this acoustics thing myself. However, isn't a 10 x 12 room considered to tiny? Sure you can fit people into it, but wouldn't comb filtering and such be a nitemare. From what I've heard, most people prefer big rooms for recording drums. They say that 9 foot ceilings just don't work. If you couldn't get massive height, wouldn't massive length and width help cover this? What's the deal with vocal booths. Do people really use these? Most of the pictures and videos I see of all sorts of music show the vocalist working in a room that is much larger (and more live) than any vocal booth. Of course, this would be for overdubs. Once again, I'm very new to this and I'm trying to ask questions that hopefully someone will have the answer to. Thanks, Brandon Drury

I cant speak on all of that, but the room john designed for me works great. I can get a drum mix up from these tracks way quicker than anything I had done before (and I do a lot of live recordinsg in BIG rooms :). So It boils down to taste and using what you got. I am not telling him to significantly shrink his room, just chop off a few feet to build a vocal booth. Currently his room is about 30 x 20 which is nice and large. making the room closer to 23 x 20 will not hurt his drum sound. and making a 10 x 7 vocal booth is a very large room to cut one vocal :) IMO Bryan Giles I should say this also, dont believe everything you see. i have worked on some of these projects where a small vocal booth was used then comes video time and they have the singer in a humongous room with a U 87 dancing and patting their feet (stuff u never hear on the actual tape). Some is real, some is not :) Personally I prefer a vocal booth as opposed to some humongous room. Who wants to mix around the NOTICABLE room reverb that gets printed on the tape from a large cutting room. OR... They use gobos to trap the vocalist in cuz all thay had was this huge room :)

Okay, that works for me. I'm curious. What kind of treatment did you use for you 10 x 12 room? I've been reading about the acoustics of control rooms and I don't see how it's any different for a live room. Basically, the average 10x12 room is a nitemare when it comes to mud in the low mid range. Thanks, Brandon

The floor plan is posted around here some where but 2 of the walls were angled slat resonators, the other 2 walls were flat and I placed 4pcf 2"semi-rigid rockwool on them. The ceiling has 3" rockwool with a nice reflective hardwood floor. The room sounds GREAT!!!. Snare is nice and full. Vocals are crisp and tight. I could go on and on. I need to hurry and get these pics up. Kenzee entertainment or Patricks den is how it is listed on Johns studios page Bryan Giles The Control room is also 10 x 13 and sounds fantastic. Bass nice and tight and what I mix is what I get when I walk out the door.

The Control room is also 10 x 13 and sounds fantastic. Bass nice and tight and what I mix is what I get when I walk out the door.

You can get accurate mixes in a 10 x 13 control room? According to everything I've read, this sounds impossible. How did you do it? I'm particularly interested in your bass management. Thanks Brandon

OK... revised plan... (a direct steal from the sae institute) and modified... Just kind of quick hack for ideas... BTW, as far as the doors illustrated... I would swap out all of the sliders for hinged. Opinions? Thanx, Max

brandondrury wrote:

The Control room is also 10 x 13 and sounds fantastic. Bass nice and tight and what I mix is what I get when I walk out the door.

You can get accurate mixes in a 10 x 13 control room? According to everything I've read, this sounds impossible. How did you do it? I'm particularly interested in your bass management. Thanks Brandon

Well according to my reference manual....with God all things are possible. I dont have hard fast scientific evidence, I have practicle evidence. I mix and when i walk out the room my mixes are the same. Even clients note that. I dont mix for the car or the old ways we used to mix when we had no good mix rooms. I mix how I feel and it translates. John knows his stuff. bottom line. :) I did all the bass trapping recommended, angled walls, ceiling design, etc..... What more can I say. :) The man knows what he is doing. :)

Max, one question - are you planning on "loading in" anything wider than an anorexic bass player through that door/lock layout? Might wanna play with it some more... Steve

A question on doors. Two between the soundlock by the studio and outdoors? I would think that only door would required tot he outside. Would also give you an emergency amp closet.

As far as the airlock (and all others except the lounge entry) doors... I'm thinking 3'-6" to 4'-0". Like I said... it was a quick hack for sure. I'm thinking that the two doors ARE necessary at the "main" entry air lock in order to provide the isolation from outside. If not, I'll GLADLY drop it to one. I can easily find other places to spend time, energy and money! :D (a coupla' cold ones come to mind!) :D :D As a side bar entry... My mobile rig is a 7'x14' tandem axle trailer... I got real lucky and my mixes translate to just about anywhere, so a 10x13 is not bending my mind out of shape. Max

If your doors are all capable of good airtight seals, then that extra door would translate to a triple leaf barrier as far as the alcove area between rooms - this isn't good for anything but mid frequencies; lower ones (the hard part of sound isolation) need mass-air-mass, period. With good seals, it would be better to leave the inner alcove door off - that would also give more maneuvering room by not having any extra framing or the door itself in the way... Steve

Gitting rid of the inner alcove door is GOOD news... Now, can anyone suggest how to shoehorn another room/space in? I'd like to end up with CR, drum room, live room, vocal booth... and a composing room... something like a keyboard, ADAT and an O2R. Thanx, Max