Starting a new build.

Hello everybody, For some weeks now I have my final planning for building a new garage, with a "studio" on the top floor. I have been reading this forum for the past few days, and there is so much information and stuff I should know that I will probably be reading for months more. Awesome really. The garage we will be building will be 7 by 7 meters. The top floor room I will be using for the "studio" will be 7,00 by 3,50 (or 4,00 if that would be a major help). There's 2 ways for me to split the floor, and my first question is: How would you do it? My ideal setup in the room is a, sort of, control room and a full band practise room (2 guitars, bass, keys, drums and another singer) Is there anyone of you who would be able to point me in the right direction on how to set it up? I've seen several builds with smaller spaces, but none of them really fit to my needs. So yeah, any help appreciated. Thanks in advance! RMW~ Attachtments: The 2 possibility's for layouts.

Hi RM. Please check the rules for posting: you seem to be missing something... :) Also, you double-posted this, so I removed one of them as they were identical. Anyway, building on the second floor is usually not a good idea, for many reasons: in order to properly isolate the rooms of a studio, you need huge amounts of mass, so the structure of the building has to be able to take a much heavier than normal load. But since you are designing the entire building, including the first floor, you can take that into account in the basic building design. So you might be OK, but it is something to keep in mind. There will be many tons of extra load on the second floor that a normal garage just doesn't have to support, so it cannot be built like a normal garage.

The top floor room I will be using for the "studio" will be 7,00 by 3,50 (or 4,00 if that would be a major help).

That isn't very big for two rooms. That makes each room no bigger than 3.5 x 4, without even considering the isolation and treatment that would be needed, which will take up many cm on each wall. I can't see you getting a full band of "2 guitars, bass, keys, drums and another singer" into a space that small. Is there any way you can make the room bigger? Or maybe I misunderstood your post, and you are going to have two rooms, EACH of which measures 7 x 4? That would work better. - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

Hi RM. Please check the rules for posting: you seem to be missing something... :) Also, you double-posted this, so I removed one of them as they were identical. Anyway, building on the second floor is usually not a good idea, for many reasons: in order to properly isolate the rooms of a studio, you need huge amounts of mass, so the structure of the building has to be able to take a much heavier than normal load. But since you are designing the entire building, including the first floor, you can take that into account in the basic building design. So you might be OK, but it is something to keep in mind. There will be many tons of extra load on the second floor that a normal garage just doesn't have to support, so it cannot be built like a normal garage.

The top floor room I will be using for the "studio" will be 7,00 by 3,50 (or 4,00 if that would be a major help).

That isn't very big for two rooms. That makes each room no bigger than 3.5 x 4, without even considering the isolation and treatment that would be needed, which will take up many cm on each wall. I can't see you getting a full band of "2 guitars, bass, keys, drums and another singer" into a space that small. Is there any way you can make the room bigger? Or maybe I misunderstood your post, and you are going to have two rooms, EACH of which measures 7 x 4? That would work better. - Stuart -

Hey Stuart, thanks for the quick reply. Sorry for the double post, did not notice that! Thanks for removing one. And yeah, I kinda skipped the "Read this before posting".. But the building will be my dads, in their garden. So I cant really make any choices about the building and its interior. Though I get to pick which half of the top floor Im getting, thats prettymuch it. The topfloor will be properly isolated, or alteast thats what Im aiming for. Problem is, the room will be 7 by 4 meters. I was thinking about a 2 by 4 "control room" with the main PC, the mixer etc. Would this be a good idea or just a waste of money? By the way, the room is purely for my own and my bands usage, so no paid bands or anything will occupy my room. I would just like to make most of whats given :). Thanks in advance! RMW~

I was personally thinking about something like this. The reason I would like to implent a Control Room is to have a seperated, noise-free room for some mastering for my bands recordings. In this room I would like to get me some monitors, instead of "mastering" on the normal PA. Would this be a good idea? Or would I be better of placing a desk with my PC, screens and the monitors in the regular room, thus increasing my overall volume for the band practise room? RMW~

And yeah, I kinda skipped the "Read this before posting"..

Yep! So maybe bow would be a good time to take a look at it? This is the one I'm talking about, (click here).

So I cant really make any choices about the building and its interior.

It's not the interior that I'm talking about! It's the STRUCTURE that matters. In order to isolate your rooms so the neighbors aren't calling the cops on you each time you play, you need to have isolation (sometimes also incorrectly called "soundproofing"), and the ONLY way to do that is with very heavy materials. To isolate that room, you will need thousands of pounds of drywall, studs, insulation, and other things. You cannot put that amount of load on the second floor, if the structure of the first floor is not designed to support it. That's the issue. Normal single-story garage construction just isn't designed to take the huge extra load of a studio on the second floor.

The topfloor will be properly isolated, or alteast thats what Im aiming for.

Are you sure about that? Did you do thr math? Drums are at least 115 dB loud: Most municipal noise regulations specify around 45 dB as the highest permissible level. Therefore you need a floor, walls and ceiling that provide at least 70 dB of isolation. That implies 2 layers of 5/8" drywall on the entire outer leaf, a 30cm air gap, then another 2 layers of 5/8 drywall on the entire inner-leaf. 4 layers of 5/8 drywall weighs about 50 kg per square meter. You need about 80 square meters for your walls, plus another 28 for your ceiling, plus the equivalent mass for your floor (wood, not drywall), over another 28 square meters. That's 136 x 50 = 6,800 kilograms of drywall and OSB, without even thinking about studs, mineral wool, doors, windows, HVAC, electrical, etc. Get your dad to check with your structural engineer, to make sure that the garage structure can handle an ADDITIONAL dead load of at least another 10,000 kg, plus the live load of whatever else you want to put in there. Are you sure that the top floor will be properly isolated? Do your numbers match mine? Did you check that the structure can take an extra ten tons of load without collapsing? OK, so the point is, if you want isolation for a full rock band (enough to meets your local laws), then you better explain to your dad that the structure of his new garage needs to be tougher than normal, to support the very large weight of your studio. If not, I hope he doesn't mind waking up one day to find ten tons of drywall crashing down on his car! :)

I was thinking about a 2 by 4 "control room" with the main PC, the mixer etc. Would this be a good idea or just a waste of money?

ITU, EBU and others recommend a minimum room volume of 45 m3 for critical listening rooms. A 2 x 4 control room, averaging 2.5 m high is 20 m3. Less than half the recommended minimum size. Now, that doesn't mean you can't make a 2 x 4 control room! It just means that it won't be anywhere near optimal in sound, no matter how you treat it. Also 2 x 4m is a bad size anyway, since one dimension is twice the other: it is exactly twice as long as it is wide. You will have serious modal response issues in that room, because all the first order modes of the width will line up exactly with the second harmonics of the length. Bad idea. Also, don't forget that you will lose about 33 cm on each side if you want that level of isolation, due to the MSM system, so your actual interior dimensions will be 1.34 meters wide by 3.34 m long, and 2.17 high, for a total room volume of 9.7 m3 (compare with 45 m3 minimum recommended). Of course, you could reduce the MSM air gap to make the walls thinner, at the cost of isolation... For the same reason, your 7 x 4 live-room space will be down to 6.34 x 3.34, after you have the isolation in place. Now, in both cases, those dimensions do NOT take into account any acoustic treatment: That's just the raw theoretical interior dimensions of the inner leaf. You will still lose at least another 20 to 40 cm on each side, for treatment. That leaves the usable space inside your control room less than one meter wide, and less than 3 m long, and the usable space in your live room about 6m by 3 m (roughly). There are methods you can use to save some space here, but they require more expensive materials. Which brings us to another point: You didn't mention your budget! How much are you prepared to spend on this studio? That's also a key point.

The reason I would like to implent a Control Room is to have a seperated, noise-free room for some mastering for my bands recordings. In this room I would like to get me some monitors, instead of "mastering" on the normal PA.

Definitely! You certainly cannot master at all on PA speakers!!! :shock: You can't even mix successfully on PA speakers! So, if it is mastering that you want to do, then you certainlyneed a bigger space than just 1 meter by 3 meters :!: Mastering studios are most definitely considered to be "critical listening", so you should aim for that 45 m3 volume.

Or would I be better of placing a desk with my PC, screens and the monitors in the regular room, thus increasing my overall volume for the band practise room?

That would probably be the best idea, especially if you want to master. But that will make it much harder to track accurately, especially for noisy instruments like drums. Perhaps what you COULD so is to consider a large space for your control room / mastering room, and a small space for a drum booth? That might be a good alternative. Put your drums in an isolated booth, and everyone else in the control room. You can turn down the volume knob on a bass cab or electric guitar amp, but there's no volume knob on the acoustic drum kit! :) You can't turn it down, so isolate it in a booth, and turn down the knobs on the things that have them.... - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

And yeah, I kinda skipped the "Read this before posting"..

Yep! So maybe bow would be a good time to take a look at it? This is the one I'm talking about, (click here).

So I cant really make any choices about the building and its interior.

It's not the interior that I'm talking about! It's the STRUCTURE that matters. In order to isolate your rooms so the neighbors aren't calling the cops on you each time you play, you need to have isolation (sometimes also incorrectly called "soundproofing"), and the ONLY way to do that is with very heavy materials. To isolate that room, you will need thousands of pounds of drywall, studs, insulation, and other things. You cannot put that amount of load on the second floor, if the structure of the first floor is not designed to support it. That's the issue. Normal single-story garage construction just isn't designed to take the huge extra load of a studio on the second floor.

The topfloor will be properly isolated, or alteast thats what Im aiming for.

Are you sure about that? Did you do thr math? Drums are at least 115 dB loud: Most municipal noise regulations specify around 45 dB as the highest permissible level. Therefore you need a floor, walls and ceiling that provide at least 70 dB of isolation. That implies 2 layers of 5/8" drywall on the entire outer leaf, a 30cm air gap, then another 2 layers of 5/8 drywall on the entire inner-leaf. 4 layers of 5/8 drywall weighs about 50 kg per square meter. You need about 80 square meters for your walls, plus another 28 for your ceiling, plus the equivalent mass for your floor (wood, not drywall), over another 28 square meters. That's 136 x 50 = 6,800 kilograms of drywall and OSB, without even thinking about studs, mineral wool, doors, windows, HVAC, electrical, etc. Get your dad to check with your structural engineer, to make sure that the garage structure can handle an ADDITIONAL dead load of at least another 10,000 kg, plus the live load of whatever else you want to put in there. Are you sure that the top floor will be properly isolated? Do your numbers match mine? Did you check that the structure can take an extra ten tons of load without collapsing? OK, so the point is, if you want isolation for a full rock band (enough to meets your local laws), then you better explain to your dad that the structure of his new garage needs to be tougher than normal, to support the very large weight of your studio. If not, I hope he doesn't mind waking up one day to find ten tons of drywall crashing down on his car! :)

I was thinking about a 2 by 4 "control room" with the main PC, the mixer etc. Would this be a good idea or just a waste of money?

ITU, EBU and others recommend a minimum room volume of 45 m3 for critical listening rooms. A 2 x 4 control room, averaging 2.5 m high is 20 m3. Less than half the recommended minimum size. Now, that doesn't mean you can't make a 2 x 4 control room! It just means that it won't be anywhere near optimal in sound, no matter how you treat it. Also 2 x 4m is a bad size anyway, since one dimension is twice the other: it is exactly twice as long as it is wide. You will have serious modal response issues in that room, because all the first order modes of the width will line up exactly with the second harmonics of the length. Bad idea. Also, don't forget that you will lose about 33 cm on each side if you want that level of isolation, due to the MSM system, so your actual interior dimensions will be 1.34 meters wide by 3.34 m long, and 2.17 high, for a total room volume of 9.7 m3 (compare with 45 m3 minimum recommended). Of course, you could reduce the MSM air gap to make the walls thinner, at the cost of isolation... For the same reason, your 7 x 4 live-room space will be down to 6.34 x 3.34, after you have the isolation in place. Now, in both cases, those dimensions do NOT take into account any acoustic treatment: That's just the raw theoretical interior dimensions of the inner leaf. You will still lose at least another 20 to 40 cm on each side, for treatment. That leaves the usable space inside your control room less than one meter wide, and less than 3 m long, and the usable space in your live room about 6m by 3 m (roughly). There are methods you can use to save some space here, but they require more expensive materials. Which brings us to another point: You didn't mention your budget! How much are you prepared to spend on this studio? That's also a key point.

The reason I would like to implent a Control Room is to have a seperated, noise-free room for some mastering for my bands recordings. In this room I would like to get me some monitors, instead of "mastering" on the normal PA.

Definitely! You certainly cannot master at all on PA speakers!!! :shock: You can't even mix successfully on PA speakers! So, if it is mastering that you want to do, then you certainlyneed a bigger space than just 1 meter by 3 meters :!: Mastering studios are most definitely considered to be "critical listening", so you should aim for that 45 m3 volume.

Or would I be better of placing a desk with my PC, screens and the monitors in the regular room, thus increasing my overall volume for the band practise room?

That would probably be the best idea, especially if you want to master. But that will make it much harder to track accurately, especially for noisy instruments like drums. Perhaps what you COULD so is to consider a large space for your control room / mastering room, and a small space for a drum booth? That might be a good alternative. Put your drums in an isolated booth, and everyone else in the control room. You can turn down the volume knob on a bass cab or electric guitar amp, but there's no volume knob on the acoustic drum kit! :) You can't turn it down, so isolate it in a booth, and turn down the knobs on the things that have them.... - Stuart -

Wow, you really take your time for this mate, thanks! Let me explain things more properly.

It's not the interior that I'm talking about! It's the STRUCTURE that matters.

Well, you got a point there. The base design for the building will be so that I can put some serious weight on the top floor, but the 10k kilos you mentioned will be a problem, yes. The building will be about 10 meters away, in all directions, from any neighbours. Also it shouldn't be a problem if we have SOME sound outside. I will pick up the insulation on a later date, I got to talk with my dad about this. Another thing about this. What if I will dig myself in? Put the whole structure 3 meters underground? Ill make a sketchup for that in a minute.

Which brings us to another point: You didn't mention your budget! How much are you prepared to spend on this studio? That's also a key point.

For this studio I got a budget about 10k euro's, but this includes the mixer, cables etc etc. Could any of you give me some advice on that too? On my previous highschool Ive been working with a Mackie Onyx 1620i. It can stream all its channels into Protools/Cubase etc. without any additional 3rd party tools. Also, keeping in mind the budget, I would like to spend about 500 euro for the minotors, would this be a good idea? Any thoughts on some budget monitors? And what do you think about the Mackie Onyx? Thanks again, RMW~ Oh btw, English is my third language, so I don't really know how to spell everything. Correct me if Im wrong please. Thanks.

Another thing about this. What if I will dig myself in? Put the whole structure 3 meters underground? Ill make a sketchup for that in a minute.

that's an option, for sure. Cost might be an issue, and you have to take special care with moisture leaking in, but from the point of view of isolation, that would be fantastic!

For this studio I got a budget about 10k euro's, but this includes the mixer, cables etc etc.

Sounds like it is way on the low side! To get an idea of realistic costs, call some local building contractors and ask for their basic flat-rate per square meter for building an upscale hose in your area, or for renovating an unfinished garage to make it into a bedroom with en-suite bathroom. That will give you an idea of the real cost of doing this. You are talking about an area of 28 square meters, and a budget of 5,000 (allowing 5k for the other stuff you mentioned). That means a cost of only 178 per square meter! I would guess that, realistically, it would cost four or five times that much to do this right, considering the building cost, or maybe 2 to 3 times if we are just talking isolation and treatment, but not the actual building structure. 5,000 would cover treatment, maybe, but not isolation, and certainly not construction

I would like to spend about 500 euro for the minotors, would this be a good idea?

You mean 500 for each one, right? You can probably find something basic in that range, but good studio monitors are a bit more expensive.

English is my third language, so I don't really know how to spell everything. Correct me if Im wrong please.

You are doing fine! Your English is about fifty times better than my Dutch! :) - Stuart -

that's an option, for sure. Cost might be an issue, and you have to take special care with moisture leaking in, but from the point of view of isolation, that would be fantastic!

The creation of this would make the building cost tripple, so I've decided not to go with that..

Sounds like it is way on the low side! To get an idea of realistic costs, call some local building contractors and ask for their basic flat-rate per square meter for building an upscale hose in your area, or for renovating an unfinished garage to make it into a bedroom with en-suite bathroom. That will give you an idea of the real cost of doing this.

Hehe, you mis-understood me! I ment 10k for the equipment and isolation. Not the building cost!

You mean 500 for each one, right? You can probably find something basic in that range, but good studio monitors are a bit more expensive.

Actually, I was thinking about these. My highschool Music Teacher had these at home and he found them surprisingly good for the money. Any thoughts about those? Also, anyone have experience with the Mackie Onyx 1620i? It seems to be a nice mixer for its price.. RMW~

Hehe, you mis-understood me! I ment 10k for the equipment and isolation. Not the building cost!

Actually, I understood you perfectly: that's why I suggested you call some local contractors to get their estimate "for renovating an unfinished garage to make it into a bedroom with en-suite bathroom". That's roughly the equivalent of what you need to do, in terms of material costs and labor. Do you honestly think they will tell you that they'll do that job for 5k? I don't think so. Call them and ask them. If you get a quote under 20k, I'll be REALLY surprised. I think you are way underestimating what it costs to do this. 10k for materials with totally free labor might be do-able, but 5k for the whole thing, done properly? :lol: 5k to isolate "2 guitars, bass, keys, drums and another singer" in a second-floor attic space, down to legally acceptable levels next door? :lol: - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

Hehe, you mis-understood me! I ment 10k for the equipment and isolation. Not the building cost!

Actually, I understood you perfectly: that's why I suggested you call some local contractors to get their estimate "for renovating an unfinished garage to make it into a bedroom with en-suite bathroom". That's roughly the equivalent of what you need to do, in terms of material costs and labor. Do you honestly think they will tell you that they'll do that job for 5k? I don't think so. Call them and ask them. If you get a quote under 20k, I'll be REALLY surprised. I think you are way underestimating what it costs to do this. 10k for materials with totally free labor might be do-able, but 5k for the whole thing, done properly? :lol: 5k to isolate "2 guitars, bass, keys, drums and another singer" in a second-floor attic space, down to legally acceptable levels next door? :lol: - Stuart -

Actually, all the work will be done for free. My dad has some friends with a building company who will do it for a case of beer and the coffee. And the materials, they will be bought outside of the budget tbh. Also for the cost that the contracter will buy it for, no warehouse etc who will get some profit over it. Hence the reason I can't believe it will cost me more than 5k. Btw, what do you think about this insulation? RMW~

You've got too many leaves! :o You only want two Mass layers separated by an air gap which is mostly filled with your rockwool (100mm at least or more). Loose the hardboard and consider a 2 or 3 layer inside leaf of 16mm plasterboard.

Btw, what do you think about this insulation?

That's a FOUR-LEAF system! :shock: Very poor isolation for low frequencies, such as drums, bass, keyboards... As Brian said: You want only two leaves, never more, never less. Also, forget that thin hardboard: It has nowhere near enough mass. Use only 5/8" (16mm) drywall (fire-rated). You need at least two, maybe three layers of that on each leaf, and at least 4" (10cm) of air space filled mostly with rockwool. - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

Btw, what do you think about this insulation?

That's a FOUR-LEAF system! :shock: Very poor isolation for low frequencies, such as drums, bass, keyboards... As Brian said: You want only two leaves, never more, never less. Also, forget that thin hardboard: It has nowhere near enough mass. Use only 5/8" (16mm) drywall (fire-rated). You need at least two, maybe three layers of that on each leaf, and at least 4" (10cm) of air space filled mostly with rockwool. - Stuart -

BriHar wrote:

You've got too many leaves! :o You only want two Mass layers separated by an air gap which is mostly filled with your rockwool (100mm at least or more). Loose the hardboard and consider a 2 or 3 layer inside leaf of 16mm plasterboard.

Could either of you draw me a quick sketchup for what you mean? I kind of lost what the whole leaf-system is..

Perhaps a quick description will help. A leaf is a mass-layer. In your diagram, starting at the left, you have your first mass layer comprised of the concrete tiles plus (provided they are well bonded to each other) the wood. Continuing to the right, after the rockwool insulation you have a hardboard layer, this is the second mass layer. After the airgap you have a wood mass layer - number 3. Finally after another rockwool partition, you have your 4th and final mass-layer of hardboard. Although logic seems to imply that more layers should equal more isolation, this is in fact not the case. Search for the keyword MSM (Mass-Spring-Mass).

Good explanation, Brian! You beat me to it! :)

"you have your first mass layer comprised of the concrete tiles plus ... the wood."

And that is also an issue: the wood is doing nothing at all, no matter how well it is bonded. The density of concrete is around 2300 kg/m3. Wood is more like 600. So adding 3/4" of wood to 2 inches of concrete increases the mass by barely 9%. That will increase isolation by less than a half of one decibel! In other words, the wood is accomplishing nothing at all. (That's without even considering the 4-leaf system). - Stuart -

First of all, the layer of wood will be placed under the roof tiles, since thats normal.. according to my contracter. After the wood, I place only the rockwool and then the outer layer? The 18mm plasterboard? Or do I go with 2 layers of rockwool? And thanks for explain in so much detail, I didn't really get the leaf system. Like this? Which would be better, the left or the right one? Materials from left to right being: Concrete Roof Tiles, Wood, Rock Wool, Plasterboard. And between the right one theres a gap of air and then Rockwool - Plasterboard.

Both will work, both are correct two-leaf systems. But the one on the right will work better, because there is a much larger gap between the two leaves. To make that better still (either the left option or the right option) you can add another layer of drywall (plasterboard) directly on top of the layer that you show, but with no air gap of rock wool in between. By the way, I think your dimensions on those diagrams are supposed to be "cm", not "mm": I've never seen 1 mm drywall before! :) Jokes aside, 1 cm drywall is too thin: you need 1.6 cm drywall (16mm, or 5/8"). - Stuart -

Or instead of 16mm drywall, you could try and get 15mm Fermacell, which should be available in the Netherlands :wink: @ Stuart: What do think in this case of beefing up the outer leaf with drywall bonded to the wood on the inside.

The outer layer is 18mm drywall, the picture just didn´t show it properly, sorry for that. So 2 layers of mass make a thicker leaf, not 2 leafes, if I understood correctly? And how could I construct the airgap between the 2 layers of rockwool?

Now I've lost the picture. You show concrete roofing tiles with an inner layer of wood. Where does the drywall figure in this? When I refer to outer layer I mean't the layer that forms the exterior (outermost) wall. Please present an accurate diagram of the current wall construction. 2 or more layers of material, e.g. drywall, with no gaps between constitutes a leaf (a thicker leaf as you describe), yes. You don't require an airgap between the rockwool layers. As long as the rockwool is not compressed (i.e. squeezed inbetween) you can fill the entire airgap with it (provide too that it is not extremely dense rockwool). If the airgap is wider than the double thickness of wool, then the remaining airgap can be on either side (it doesn't have to be between wool batts). Normally there would be a wood or metal stud frame upon which the inner leaf would be affixed - the rockwool would fill the spaces between the studs (the framing should not be in contact with the outer leaf!). Resilient channel on strapping is another construction possibility. Again if you search for MSM in the forum you should find many examples of construction. Again, show us an accurate illustration of your existing walls (perhaps also ceiling/roof and floor)

BriHar wrote:

Now I've lost the picture. You show concrete roofing tiles with an inner layer of wood. Where does the drywall figure in this? When I refer to outer layer I mean't the layer that forms the exterior (outermost) wall. Please present an accurate diagram of the current wall construction. 2 or more layers of material, e.g. drywall, with no gaps between constitutes a leaf (a thicker leaf as you describe), yes. You don't require an airgap between the rockwool layers. As long as the rockwool is not compressed (i.e. squeezed inbetween) you can fill the entire airgap with it (provide too that it is not extremely dense rockwool). If the airgap is wider than the double thickness of wool, then the remaining airgap can be on either side (it doesn't have to be between wool batts). Normally there would be a wood or metal stud frame upon which the inner leaf would be affixed - the rockwool would fill the spaces between the studs (the framing should not be in contact with the outer leaf!). Resilient channel on strapping is another construction possibility. Again if you search for MSM in the forum you should find many examples of construction. Again, show us an accurate illustration of your existing walls (perhaps also ceiling/roof and floor)

Once again, thanks for the quick and detailed reply! I will try to create an illustration for you. Ill edit this post with the pic once Im finished. Oh, and one more thing, the whole room / garage is still to be built :) I just want to start building prepared. And the pic: I think this explains it better. And is this something good? Or would I be better off getting 2 layers of RW? Now I shall look up for MSM and see if I did something wrong. And, what did you mean that the studs for the Rockwool shouldn't be in contact with the outer leaf? How could I construct something like that? And 2 more pictures.. First: The door construction. First I put 18mm Wood, MDF, then 50MM beams to support the door, Rockwool inbetween the beams, and then (not showing on pic) a 18mm MDF wood to cover it all up. Sounds right? And the roof insulation, I believe this is how I should create the support for rockwool? And whats the next stage after this? Add 2 layers of 18mm Drywall? I added the SKP file to show how I understand it should be done, check the Scene's. Please tell me how it should be diff if its not :)